Scream (1996)
We assert that Scream irrevocably redefined the horror genre by subverting canonical slasher conventions and by transforming familiar tropes into instruments of psychological disorientation. JJ contends that the film’s principal ingenuity resides in its duplicitous dramaturgy: an early indication of a primary perpetrator that the narrative subsequently dismantles, only to culminate in the revelation of a conspiratorial duality that renders conventional survival heuristics ineffectual. We examine how Kevin Williamson’s script, coupled with Wes Craven’s directorial acuity, cultivates robust character investment, engenders sustained suspense through meticulous timing, and marries a thematically resonant soundtrack to the film’s tonal architecture. JJ emphasizes the film’s synthesis of incisive writing, compelling performances, and meta-commentary on horror lore as the factors that precipitated its cultural and aesthetic impact. We conclude that, notwithstanding minor implausibilities, Scream merits the highest commendation and sustained reappraisal, and we awarded it a maximal rating in recognition of its enduring influence.
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Transcript
There.
Speaker B:There goes every single thing that I'm supposed to do in a horror situation out the goddamn window.
Speaker A:Yep, all the rules go by by.
Speaker A:And yet we still have Randy giving the rules of horror film, which is fantastic.
Speaker A:And never have sex.
Speaker A:Welcome to the what's Every Podcast, where we fashion ourselves cinematic judge and jury.
Speaker A:My name is J.J. crowder.
Speaker A:I'm here with my co host Alec Bur.
Speaker B:Let's get it.
Speaker A:We appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker A:Go ahead, hit that.
Speaker A:Follow subscribe like bell notification buttons.
Speaker A:Tell a friend about us.
Speaker A:Tell a family member about us.
Speaker A:Don't tell anybody related to most of the movies.
Speaker A:Now that we're past Scary Movie last week.
Speaker B:Yeah, we're getting the real meat and potatoes of the book.
Speaker A:We're getting some actual Halloween horror films.
Speaker A:And don't.
Speaker A:So yeah, don't tell anybody though, you know, at the time, like I could have had you tell Drew Barrymore and F. Campbell like that.
Speaker A:I'd still probably be okay with that.
Speaker A:Yeah, huge crush on both of them when I was a kid anyway.
Speaker A:Especially when this came out.
Speaker A:Excuse me, I've been a little under the weather.
Speaker A:So sorry about the terrible scratchy voice and probably the hacks and coughs that'll go on throughout this podcast.
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Speaker A:And thank you for hanging out with us and listening.
Speaker A:So let's jump into our Movie of the week second week of horror movies picked by Our patrons.
Speaker A:We had nothing to do with the selection of these movies.
Speaker A:So we'll be alternating.
Speaker A:But how we do it.
Speaker A:But it's been, it's been fun so far for Alec.
Speaker B:I, I'm seeing all new movies.
Speaker B:It's great.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So this week we're doing Scream.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:It was written by Kevin Williamson.
Speaker A:It was directed by Wes Craven.
Speaker A:It stars Nev Campbell, Courtney Cox, David Arquette, Roger L. Jackson, Kevin Patrick Walls, David Booth, skeet Ulrich, Rose McGowan, Jamie Kennedy, Matthew Lillard and Drew Barrymore.
Speaker A:It's about the small town of Woodsboro, California, where a mass killer known as Ghostface begins murdering high school students.
Speaker A:And a group of friends must use their knowledge of horror movies to unmask the killer.
Speaker A:That's, that's not inaccurate, I guess, at the end.
Speaker A:But it's, there's only one that uses their knowledge of horror movies to kind of work through that.
Speaker A:So I appreciate the effort in that synopsis, which mostly was very correct, but the end, there's a little generous to most of the people in this movie.
Speaker A:It's your week.
Speaker A:You get to start.
Speaker A:So tell me all about your experience with Scream here, buddy.
Speaker B:First time seeing the original Scream was right earlier this week.
Speaker A:Love it.
Speaker B:And I watched it after watching Scary Movie.
Speaker A:Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker B:I'd watch Scary Movie first, got the parody, then went back and watched this.
Speaker B:And I'm kind of glad I did it in that order.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But going back, I was.
Speaker B:Or watching Scream, I was wondering what in the world were they thinking trying to parody this?
Speaker B:Because the first 10 minutes, dark as hell, it's not even really scary.
Speaker B:It's just dark and really sets the tone for what you're getting into with the movie that this is not going to be your Halloween.
Speaker B:Or even like that typical slasher.
Speaker B:This is going far more psychological.
Speaker B:It is not gonna hold back.
Speaker B:And I mean, right off, in the very beginning of it, you get someone who's strung up by, like, her intestines.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It's no joke in the opening sequence.
Speaker B:And so it, it was a nice breath of fresh air coming off of week one.
Speaker B:But I really liked how it set the tone just almost to me, like, I can only imagine viewing this in the 90s, right, as being this really introduction to almost a new wave of horror coming in.
Speaker B:That is diabolical.
Speaker B:So I, I, I, I enjoyed it.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker A:I knew you would.
Speaker A:I knew you would.
Speaker A:I, I knew by my psychotic Alec would really enjoy this movie that I'm sure.
Speaker A:That there's so.
Speaker A:Because.
Speaker A:Because I.
Speaker A:This is like.
Speaker A:I was so happy when Charles put this on the list.
Speaker A:Because we did.
Speaker A:Before you were part of the podcast, when you were just a listening fella, we did scream 5.
Speaker A:I think it was whatever the one that when they remade it or they did it, it was named Scream again.
Speaker A:So, like, they didn't put a number to it.
Speaker A:And then they started doing six and seven, so.
Speaker A:So I think it was Scream five.
Speaker A:We did that.
Speaker A:And it was, like, torturous for poor Javier because, like, he just doesn't like things that are intense.
Speaker A:You don't like things that are, like, actually horrifying and scary and creepy and shit like that.
Speaker A:So I'm learning the nuance between why both of you don't enjoy horror.
Speaker A:But this one, I was like, this is Alex Bag.
Speaker A:Like, this is like some psychological mental with your ass while you.
Speaker A:And then end up murdering you after.
Speaker A:It's almost like, what's the.
Speaker A:Like, they talk about, like, monsters like it.
Speaker A:Who wants to drum up your fear first because you're tastier?
Speaker A:Like, this is like, this is the perfect epitome of that.
Speaker A:And for me, this is one of my favorite horror movies of all time.
Speaker A:And there's a lot of reasons behind that one.
Speaker A:I think it's extremely well made.
Speaker A:Wes Craven was in his bag when he pulled this one out, but I also.
Speaker A:It like, you.
Speaker A:You hit it.
Speaker A:It redefined and it changed horror in the 90s.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And we're gonna.
Speaker A:Next week, we're gonna do one of the.
Speaker A:The old classics that this movie inspired or this was inspired was inspiring to this movie, right?
Speaker A:And like.
Speaker A:And we know Wes Craven could be considered the godfather of the slasher or part.
Speaker A:At least part of the.
Speaker A:The King cruise from the late 70s and early 80s and all the way through the 80s, really.
Speaker A:And then in the early 90s.
Speaker A:But it got really stale as you got into the late 80s, early 90s.
Speaker A:As I was a kid.
Speaker A:Like, I love horror.
Speaker A:We talk about this all the time.
Speaker A:It's one of my favorite things.
Speaker A:But one of the very first horror movies I ever watched was the original Friday or Nightmare on Elm Street.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And then right after that, it was Friday the 13th, and the.
Speaker A:The originals were like, they were up like, they'll mess with you.
Speaker A:And, like, it's scary.
Speaker A:Then it got sequel after sequel after sequel and like, Halloween.
Speaker A:And you had all these movies that were great when they first came out, and they were terrifying.
Speaker A:And then they started to go wonky and you had all the stereotypes.
Speaker A:And we just knew it was like, eh, so the gore and the horror.
Speaker A:You went and watched him, but it wasn't as enjoyable.
Speaker A:And then had this lull where horror wasn't a thing very much like if.
Speaker B:We were out there.
Speaker A:But there wasn't a genre that people were like rallying behind.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Then this came out.
Speaker A:And I remember, I was 15.
Speaker A:I remember thinking, look at this cast, right?
Speaker A:Like this young cast.
Speaker A:And you thought Drew Barrymore was going to be like leading this cast with Courtney Cox because they were the two most famous that were part of it.
Speaker A:Then you had this guy that looked like Johnny Depp.
Speaker A:Yeah, Johnny Depp Jr. With.
Speaker A:With skeet Ulrich.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And then there was a bunch of people that like, you didn't really know.
Speaker A:Like Nev Campbell had some fame from Party of Five TV show, but that was still just.
Speaker A:It was it.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like it wasn't like there was a lot of people that weren't hugely famous in this movie, but there were some big names that you're like, oh, and then what the do they do?
Speaker A:Spoiler alert.
Speaker A:They mercy.
Speaker A:Probably your title card character, like actress in the first 10 minutes of the film.
Speaker A:And in, like you said, in the most brutal and just mentally exhausting way possible.
Speaker A:Because I just imagine getting that phone call.
Speaker A:Like that voice lives in my head rent free and I love it.
Speaker A:But like that.
Speaker A:Hello, Sydney.
Speaker A:Like, you want to play a game?
Speaker A:Like, off.
Speaker A:Like, that's crazy, dude.
Speaker A:So this movie will always go down.
Speaker A:I watch this movie probably annually.
Speaker A:It's probably one of the movies on my list that I watch all the time just because I think it's so good, the writing's so good.
Speaker A:Because not only is it kind of mentally exhausting because it is fear inducing, but there's this mystery element to it, like where they're dropping hints on who the killer is and you're like, like, I.
Speaker A:We'll talk about it, I'm sure.
Speaker A:But I went through everybody in the goddamn movie that's like, it's God's got to be them.
Speaker A:It's got to be them.
Speaker A:And then on top of the that to finish it all off, like it changed how killers were perceived, right?
Speaker A:And then it used the time.
Speaker A:Because back then in the 90s, all horror movies will make murderers out of people, right?
Speaker A:Like it was all the rage.
Speaker A:Video games movies, they were going to turn us all into serial killers.
Speaker A:So the.
Speaker A:The premise of this whole thing, Genius.
Speaker A:Anyway, I've talked a lot, so I'm.
Speaker A:I'm really curious about you as A first timer.
Speaker A:Like, what are the things that stuck out to you?
Speaker A:And like.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, I was spoiled a little bit, right.
Speaker B:Because I knew who the killers were.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:Killer was.
Speaker B:And so what I thought the brilliance of it is, is they make it so obvious that Billy Loomis is the killer, don't they?
Speaker B:His first appearance, you go, oh, gee, I wonder who the killer is.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And especially coming off of your kind of slasher horror run, it's like, oh, I'm in for the same exact thing.
Speaker B:Yeah, Right.
Speaker B:Then it spends.
Speaker B:Then the movie, spends the next 90 minutes or so convincing you why Billy Loomis isn't the killer.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Giving you every single reason to doubt yourself.
Speaker B:That Billy Loomis isn't the one who's actually doing it, that there's some deeper plot thickening around.
Speaker B:And never once does it cross anybody's mind that, no, my initial instinct was, right, Billy Loomis is the killer.
Speaker B:And they threw in a second killer just for funsies.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker A:Which was genius.
Speaker B:Genius.
Speaker B:Because psychological factor, which just messes with your brain.
Speaker B:Your brain is telling you the truth and you're like, cool, I trust my brain.
Speaker B:And then every single plot point is essentially telling you, you're wrong, you're wrong, your instinct is wrong.
Speaker B:Guess what, you're wrong.
Speaker B:It's not him.
Speaker B:No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker B:And then you start doubting yourself.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So who could have possibly.
Speaker B:And like you said, you're going through, well, is it so and so, could it be so and so could it be that weird Weasley guy that nobody likes?
Speaker B:Randy.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so you go through all the possibilities and you see all these different potential motivations that people have to where?
Speaker B:Oh, wait, oh, maybe.
Speaker B:No, but at the end of the day, your brain was right from the very beginning where it said, my instinct, my gut is there.
Speaker B:Problem is, you missed the second bit because you were focused on what your brain told you.
Speaker B:So you missed anything about Stu being the killer with Billy.
Speaker B:And so that's where I thought the brilliance really is, is that feeds into this kind of horror trope where you get introduced the care to the killer early, and now it's uncovering, you know, their trauma or how they're the killer versus this was, I'm going to introduce the killer early, convince you why he's not the killer, and then hit you the fact with, oh, no, you were actually right.
Speaker B:But because there was two killers, you're actually going to be dead anyway because you were too busy focusing, like under a microscope, and you're missing Everything that's going on around you.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:And that's where the real terrifying part comes in.
Speaker B:Because now there's never just one bad guy.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:You gotta be like, no, no, no, no, wait a minute.
Speaker B:How many are we potentially dealing with here?
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:I'm not gonna get stewed type of a thing.
Speaker A:Good old stew.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'll tell you what.
Speaker A:I went through every character, because I remember sitting there and we.
Speaker A:I went and saw this with my buddy Lamar, who?
Speaker A:One of my best friends, my buddy Tony, and then Caleb, and we were like.
Speaker A:We were all these horror guys, and.
Speaker A:But me and Lamar were the big ones.
Speaker A:But we were like, we got to go see this thing.
Speaker A:And we were sitting a dude.
Speaker A:We were in the back row.
Speaker A:We were pissing people off so bad because we were conversing the whole time, like, who is it?
Speaker A:Like, we thought it was the sheriff at one point.
Speaker A:Because.
Speaker A:Tell me that.
Speaker A:The bathroom scene, when the boots come down, I'm like, those are this.
Speaker A:And then they conveniently show the sheriff with the same boots on.
Speaker A:I'm like, you.
Speaker A:But then it's a small town, right?
Speaker A:Like, with this little shop that everybody.
Speaker A:Of course, they all wear the same work boots.
Speaker A:Like, why wouldn't they?
Speaker A:And then if.
Speaker A:If the sheriff's a suspect, then.
Speaker A:Then what's his face?
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:Then.
Speaker A:Oh, God, why can't I think of his name?
Speaker A:Anyway, the little deputy.
Speaker A:Dewey.
Speaker A:Dewey has to be a suspect because he's wearing the same boots.
Speaker A:He's too goddamn goofy.
Speaker A:But then he has these moments, right?
Speaker A:Like, it's so.
Speaker A:It's just like every.
Speaker A:And then you get caught and weary involved.
Speaker A:You get like.
Speaker A:There's so.
Speaker A:It's so wild and it's so well written that, like you said, you're early on.
Speaker A:You're like, how is it not Billy?
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:100% Billy.
Speaker B:As soon as he pops his head in the window, my God, there he is.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's Billy.
Speaker A:There it is.
Speaker A:And then all of a sudden, you're like.
Speaker A:To your point, you start going, wait a minute.
Speaker A:But the timing of that doesn't.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:But it never occurs to you that there's more than one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which is the genius of it.
Speaker A:And that's the part where you get to the end.
Speaker A:You're like, you.
Speaker A:No wonder you could mess with me with the timeline.
Speaker A:Because there's points in the movie like.
Speaker A:And at the end, it gets even worse because Billy's up having sex with Sydney, and what's her face is getting murked in the girl the garage.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And everybody's getting taken out while he's out getting his lay on.
Speaker A:And you're like, whoa, it can't be Billy now.
Speaker A:Like, there's no way it's Billy.
Speaker B:They get you.
Speaker A:It's just so good.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The way it's written and how they handle that is one of my favorite parts.
Speaker A:And it messed with me.
Speaker A:Like, I'm like.
Speaker A:And then we went and saw it like a second and third time because, like, nobody wanted to go.
Speaker A:We're like, dude, guys, this isn't your normal horror movie.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, it has jump scares and it has all that, but it's not like, it's not like ghosts and monsters and like, this is.
Speaker A:It's a murder mystery wrapped in a horror movie.
Speaker B:And that's a good way to put it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So we got a bunch of people to come with us at different times.
Speaker A:So, like, I have my girlfriend at the time, Natalie, and Caleb's girl Lindsay.
Speaker A:Like, so we had all these and we were bringing them in and everybody's freaking out.
Speaker A:But, like, we would take up whole rows of the theater with our friends, like, watching this movie, and we were trying to figure out.
Speaker A:We'd watch them be like, who is it?
Speaker A:Like, no, no, no.
Speaker A:And then we start piecing together, like, because they just keep telling you who it is.
Speaker A:The whole movie.
Speaker A:He keeps telling you who it is over and over and over and you're just like, but it can't be.
Speaker A:No, no, no.
Speaker B:So good.
Speaker A:So good.
Speaker A:The other thing that I love about this movie is the fact that in again, it changed the fact that we had serious, like, horror movies.
Speaker A:There was always like a comedic character, but they usually got whacked really early and.
Speaker A:And you wouldn't have much funny.
Speaker A:Like when we talk about Halloween next week, like, there's not much funny.
Speaker A:In fact, there's not funny really at all in a lot of these.
Speaker A:And you go back and the closest one, again, we go back to Wes Craven.
Speaker A:Nightmare on Elm street had some because Freddy was his own comedian, which I'm sure at some point we'll get you watching some night round Elm street before the podcast is over with.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:But most of the movies, like the horror movies, the slashers especially, they stopped having full on comedy.
Speaker A:One of my favorite parts of this one, it is.
Speaker A:It's funny throughout, like the awkward situations.
Speaker A:Like, you get Dewey, that's just this awkward, weird dude and he's got this bullish sister that's always with them.
Speaker A:And then he's chasing after the pretty little, you know, villain in this whole story with Gail.
Speaker A:But then you also get Stu, who, to me, is one of the most devious, just villainous.
Speaker A:And I love him.
Speaker A:Like, he's my favorite part of these movies.
Speaker B:Matthew Lillard is always so good.
Speaker B:He's amazing.
Speaker A:So good.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:They missed by not making him a big bad in the Dexter TV show because he would have been a great.
Speaker A:We already know he's a great serial killer.
Speaker A:But, like, the comedic moments that Stu had, really kind of.
Speaker A:And it's another way that they pushed you away.
Speaker A:He's too goofy, right?
Speaker A:Like, he could never pull it off.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:He couldn't be a serious.
Speaker A:He couldn't be one of the killers because he's just too goofy.
Speaker A:But he has some of the funniest, like, the end.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And this was the line that he says when he gets hit with the phone or whatever.
Speaker A:And he's like, my mom and dad are gonna be so mad at me.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:That's improvised.
Speaker A:Like, he.
Speaker A:That's off the cuff, him.
Speaker A:And, like, they had to retake it because everybody started laughing.
Speaker A:That was in there.
Speaker A:But it's just genius.
Speaker A:But, like, the whole time when he's.
Speaker A:Everything Stu does just makes me laugh, even when he's trying to be scary.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But he's like.
Speaker A:That's, like, when he's talking with his hand and he's at her, he's like.
Speaker A:That's the genius part of it.
Speaker A:I'll be right back.
Speaker A:As he leaves.
Speaker A:Dude, it's so good.
Speaker B:It has that extra level of, like, psychotic to it.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:That there is.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's all a game to Stu.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:That's the thing.
Speaker B:Like, you're not getting out because Stu's just in it for the love of the game.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, that's the entire reason he's there.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:You know, Billy's that dark, brooding kind of.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:Billy's the one who's gonna monologue as a villain in the comic book story, right?
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That's Billy Loomis.
Speaker B:Stu is just there.
Speaker B:Like, you can't reason with them because he's just.
Speaker A:He's just having a good time.
Speaker B:He's having a good time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's the real terrifying bit of it to even, like, you said, the point where he's like, would you really call the police?
Speaker B:Like, as he's.
Speaker B:As he's bleeding out, right?
Speaker B:And then the response that is, my mom and dad are gonna be so Mad at me.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker B:And it's just that added level of.
Speaker B:You're dealing with a psychopath.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That there is just.
Speaker B:Just, like, there's no getting out of this.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's either you or Stu.
Speaker B:And it has nothing to do with the way Stu feels about you.
Speaker B:He still likes you a lot.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You're a great friend.
Speaker B:It's just, you know that this is what we're doing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You're just next on the list.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:You're part of the movie.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:It's so good.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, and I love the dichotomy of the two of them, too, because I would almost say that you have Billy, who's the true psychopath, and then you have Stu, who's more of a sociopath.
Speaker A:Like, he doesn't feel anything other than, like, getting hit with a phone.
Speaker A:That's what.
Speaker B:Ow.
Speaker A:Dude, you cut me too deep.
Speaker A:Like, it's just, like.
Speaker A:It's fun.
Speaker A:But he's just, like.
Speaker A:He's the one I look at and go, he.
Speaker A:He has no emotion.
Speaker A:Like, there's no.
Speaker A:He doesn't relate to human beings.
Speaker A:He just want.
Speaker A:Like, he wants to kill people, like you said.
Speaker A:And then you got Billy, whose trauma really is, like, made him, like, taking him to that next step of just being this nasty, just murderous, but has a plot and a reason for what he's doing.
Speaker A:Just like, it.
Speaker A:I'm gonna.
Speaker A:I'm gonna do it.
Speaker A:But it's just.
Speaker A:And the way that it plays at the end, like, the reveal is so good.
Speaker A:Like, the line where he opens the door, he's like, man, he's going crazy.
Speaker A:We all go a little mad sometimes.
Speaker A:Like, just quoting Psycho and then shooting the dude.
Speaker A:Like, you're just like, oh, it's so good.
Speaker A:It's so good.
Speaker A:The way that the ending is revealed and you're like.
Speaker A:And there's still 25 minutes left in the movie.
Speaker A:That's the wildest part.
Speaker A:Like, you're like, oh, they just revealed this.
Speaker A:Now we got to find out the why and the how and what's going on.
Speaker A:And then you get this whole huge, deep, rich backstory that they've hinted at certain pieces of.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like the promiscuity of Sydney's mom and the cheating, and then you just find how it's all connected.
Speaker A:And, God, what a long game he played.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, Jesus, man.
Speaker A:Like, it's so good.
Speaker A:The writing.
Speaker B:Same.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then on top of that, right?
Speaker B:Because we.
Speaker B:We've done movies before where I'm like, you know, you have your list of rules.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And it's a pretty standard list of rules.
Speaker B:And this movie says nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because when you're, you know, in this situation.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Let's say it's easy, back up against the wall, get the baseball bat, you know, lock the doors.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But there's two killers.
Speaker B:So even if you can see the one, it doesn't matter because there's a second one that you can't see.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's going to be coming in.
Speaker B:Or you know, you, you got there just in time to lock the door.
Speaker B:But because of that they climbed in through a window, you know, on the other side of the house.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Type of thing.
Speaker B:So it's, it's a very nerve wracking from my perspective because I.
Speaker B:Well, shit, there goes every single thing that I'm supposed to do in a horror situation out the goddamn window.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:All the rules go bye bye.
Speaker A:And yet we still have Randy giving the rules of the horror film, which is fantastic.
Speaker A:And never have sex.
Speaker B:But it's, it's, it's that kind of idea where it gives a pretty good premise for it.
Speaker B:And then they just said, nope, nope, nope.
Speaker B:Here's how we're going to turn on the head is all these pre established rules from the last 15, 20 years, they no longer matter anymore.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It doesn't matter.
Speaker B:We're gonna figure out a way to break it or to ruin every single one of these so that there is no safe.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:In the horror movie.
Speaker B:There's nobody who survives just because they were written a certain way.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then that's added to by revealing Stu and Billy's law knowledge of horror movies.
Speaker B:That again, their plan they cooked up was specifically to counter this trope.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:And that's what really makes it that added level of horror that oh, there is no getting out of here except by, you know, getting out of here yourself.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Nobody's coming to help you or save you type of thing.
Speaker B:You gotta make your own story.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then we see Sydney go Billy badass on him.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:And I loved it when she was wearing the ghost face mask just now.
Speaker B:It's like, you're on my turf now.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Like I got my little bit of breathing room now.
Speaker B:I'm pissed.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's so good.
Speaker A:And she's talking with the thing.
Speaker A:I do love her conversation with Stu.
Speaker A:Like it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's great on Billy.
Speaker A:You can just hear him back there throwing a fit in the back room and just throwing around.
Speaker A:Oh, it's so good.
Speaker A:And the ending, even if the beginning, because like the middle, you're like, okay, what's going on?
Speaker A:It's all about the mystery of it.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:But I will say that there's some really phenomenal writing in that too.
Speaker A:Like, I love the characters and I think that's what made to me one of the things that made this movie so successful and so good was that you.
Speaker A:You actually have a lot of buy in with the characters.
Speaker A:Like you, you're rooting for Dewey, this little nerd.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:But he's there and he's trying to.
Speaker A:And when you're not wondering, is he the killer?
Speaker A:Which he's probably this.
Speaker A:Him and Randy are probably the two that I suspected the least throughout the movie.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:But when you're not like, you're rooting for him and then you love Randy because the guy's like, when he has his.
Speaker A:Like loses his.
Speaker A:In the movie store, it's so good.
Speaker A:He's going through all.
Speaker A:Everybody's a suspect.
Speaker A:So you find yourself rooting for these characters.
Speaker A:Like even Sydney, like, who's the final girl?
Speaker A:So you know you're rooting for her, but I can't remember.
Speaker A:Her best friend.
Speaker A:But like the.
Speaker A:That girl, you're kind of rooting for her in this weird, twisted way.
Speaker A:But yeah, like, I find myself just.
Speaker A:The characters are so well written and they're so established within this movie that you're like, oh, I don't want any of them to be the murderer.
Speaker A:And I find it funny because to your point earlier, the only two characters that I don't go, ah, I hope they're not the killer is Stu.
Speaker A:And goddamn Billy.
Speaker A:I'm like.
Speaker A:Because I'm like, okay, Stu's funny, but he's a little cracked.
Speaker A:So it wouldn't be a shocker if he's the killer.
Speaker A:So I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna make excuses for Stu.
Speaker A:There's the timing of it all where there's always a reasonable doubt.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Of who it could be.
Speaker A:But Billy, I'm always like, that guy, he could be the killer.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:He's a slimy little.
Speaker A:No matter how cool you think he is.
Speaker A:And so it's just so good the way that they had.
Speaker A:Because they had to do it because you had to have buy in for the characters or the drama's not quite there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because there's so many times where you're like, oh God, you're gonna die.
Speaker B:So many real close calls.
Speaker B:And that's what again, adds to it.
Speaker B:And then you have the back and forth, especially at the end, where it's just like a seesaw, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, Dewey shows up.
Speaker B:Dewey's down.
Speaker B:Gail shows up.
Speaker B:Gail goes down.
Speaker B:Gail comes back.
Speaker B:Gail goes down again type of a thing.
Speaker B:So you have this seesaw back and forth of just high tension.
Speaker B:Low tension.
Speaker B:High tension.
Speaker B:Low tension.
Speaker B:High tension.
Speaker B:Low tension.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Of wrap up.
Speaker B:That's happening.
Speaker B:And it's so easy to kind of be like, oh, my God, no.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:As you're watching and being pulled into it, that you're almost there.
Speaker B:And so that's just added the intensity.
Speaker B:Little mix that again during the middle part, you kind of lose because it's full blown detective mode.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You can almost say that you.
Speaker B:To get that breath and that, you know, like, okay, here we go now.
Speaker B:Now we're in that murder mystery.
Speaker B:We got to put together all the clues and figure out what's going on.
Speaker B:And then when they ramp up, they do a very good job of not letting you get comfortable or understand.
Speaker B:It's reveal.
Speaker B:Packed on reveal.
Speaker B:Packed on reveal that's just coming rapid fire.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:It's almost overloading senses.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that you, even as a viewer, are confused and like, wait a minute.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:Huh?
Speaker B:And so this is one of those that's like, peak for a theater experience where you can't pause and be like, wait a minute.
Speaker B:Yeah, let's go back 10 seconds.
Speaker B:Or did that really just happen?
Speaker B:And you can kind of go back and rewind.
Speaker B:Can't do that.
Speaker B:When in the 90s, this comes out in the theaters.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you're going.
Speaker B:And now you're in it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So they do a very good job pointing you to the movie and keeping you off balance, especially as they start to ramp it up.
Speaker B:So that's just that added extra layer that goes into it to make you at the end to go, what the.
Speaker B:Did I just watch?
Speaker B:I need to come back and watch it again.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:And so that's again, just beautiful, beautiful writing, beautiful storytelling.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker A:There's only one thing that bothers me, and it's so minute.
Speaker A:I just felt like I needed to talk about one thing that I always one laugh at.
Speaker A:And to go, that's.
Speaker A:That would ruin your entire movie premise in real life, and that is that Stu and Billy get their asses whooped throughout this film.
Speaker A:Phones in the face, beer bottles getting hucked at your ass.
Speaker A:Like, they get absolutely brutalized by everybody that they're trying to kill throughout this movie.
Speaker A:And I'm like, where are the bruises on these guys?
Speaker A:And I get like, you can hide, like, the.
Speaker A:The beer bottles, the stuff.
Speaker A:And by then, you're at the end game anyway.
Speaker A:But, like, there's a couple of shots that these guys take that I'm like.
Speaker A:Like, the phone in the face, I think, is the one that.
Speaker A:Like, when.
Speaker A:When Sydney smacks the dude in her house, like, in the grill with the phone, I'm like, that shit's heavy.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:You're gonna have a mark.
Speaker A:And yet there's no.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But we see.
Speaker A:But of course, if they come with a bruise on their face, then now we're like, wait a second.
Speaker A:And we know.
Speaker A:But that's the only.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:You have to have it.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Because otherwise you're like, what are we doing?
Speaker A:But they gotta fight back.
Speaker A:But yeah.
Speaker A:Like, that's the only part.
Speaker A:I'm like, there would be some physical signs of that tussle, and we never see that because we can't.
Speaker A:So you have to have that suspension of disbelief.
Speaker A:That's why I say it's nitpicky.
Speaker A:But that's the only thing I always think about when I watch this movie.
Speaker B:Well, not.
Speaker B:You brought it up.
Speaker B:I think you can fix that really easily.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:Have a fight between, like, Billy and Stu.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:For some stupid reason or whatever.
Speaker B:Or show a couple characters who show up with noticeable bruises and have questionable alibis.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like if Dewey showed up and it's like, hey, I was.
Speaker B:Yeah, I was wrestling some drunk and they, you know, laid into me or whatever.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or Randy has someone at the video store who dropped a bunch of movies on his head and he got a bruise.
Speaker B:Something along those lines.
Speaker B:Now you have that extra level to us.
Speaker B:I get what you're saying.
Speaker B:Because there's.
Speaker B:You can write it into the story.
Speaker B:That makes sense.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:As to why they're showing up with bruises.
Speaker B:But everybody who shows up with a bruise, now it's.
Speaker B:You can add that extra layer of detective work of, well, where exactly do you hit him?
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:You know, I was focused on other things at the time.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's fair.
Speaker A:And the only one that shows up is Gail, because she gets punched in the face.
Speaker A:And we see that.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, that's a good point.
Speaker A:They.
Speaker A:They could have written around that.
Speaker A:I'm sure they.
Speaker A:They were trying to save time, and maybe they did, and it just got cut.
Speaker A:Put on the cutting floor.
Speaker A:But that was one of the only things that I'm like.
Speaker A:And It That's a staple throughout all the Scream movies is the killers just get their asses kicked.
Speaker B:They take a lot of punishment.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Just get there.
Speaker A:They just get their asses kicked.
Speaker A:And like I said, most of it's bodily, which is easier to hide, but.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But then, like, you also see Billy take his shirt off in the sex scene at the end when he's been abused for two hours, and you're like, there's not a bruise on that, man.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, like, something would be shown.
Speaker B:There'd be a mark somewhere.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:He's knocked downstairs and he's.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's just.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's good stuff.
Speaker A:But that's the only thing that.
Speaker A:And then the other thing that I always want to talk about with this movie, that is the.
Speaker A:That I don't talk about a lot.
Speaker A:You usually relied on Matson to bring it up, but, like, the soundtrack of this film is outrageous.
Speaker A:School's out for Summer, Don't Fear the Reaper, Red Right Hand, like, it's so good.
Speaker A:And the timing of it all with the score that they've written on this movie, the music adds so much to this film.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I don't.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:We don't talk about music enough.
Speaker A:I think sometimes that's one thing Matson always brought up.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I hardly ever bring it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I don't.
Speaker A:I rarely do, too.
Speaker A:But, like.
Speaker A:Because most of the time movies, it's like, okay, I know the score is important, but it's not something that, to me, like, changes a film.
Speaker A:I think this movie without the score and without the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The tracks from the soundtrack that are in it, I don't think it's as good because all the music is thematic and it's all timed perfectly.
Speaker A:And like.
Speaker A:Like, I love when they have, like, the whole curfew thing.
Speaker A:And the next thing you know is it's panning by the school and everybody's getting out and it's schools out for summer.
Speaker A:I' is so good.
Speaker A:And then, like, Red Right Hand is such a great recurring theme throughout this movie.
Speaker A:Anyway, I just had to talk about the music because I think it's one that really stands out to me is this film's score and soundtrack.
Speaker B:So I agree.
Speaker B:Like, I love that there's, like.
Speaker B:And it's not necessarily because the Don't Fear the Reaper.
Speaker B:I love that song.
Speaker B:But they put it as, like, a remix.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:The original.
Speaker B:So you have that little added component as well, to where it's remixed versions, which is a very 90s thing as you're going through and you have like, I know this, but it's not the exact original, but it's like, oh, that's cool version of it.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:I want to go listen to it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:So good.
Speaker A:I was just looking at.
Speaker A:See, I read right hand don't feel the reaper.
Speaker A:Whisper School's out first.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:Hive and Artificial World.
Speaker A:Oh, so good.
Speaker B:Very, very good.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Should we rate it?
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker A:All right, my friend, you're first.
Speaker B:You're first.
Speaker A:Oh, no, I'm first.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker B:Get the.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker A:You spoke first.
Speaker A:I get to rate first.
Speaker A:I'm gonna give this thing a 5.
Speaker A:I listen.
Speaker A:I think it.
Speaker A:When I think of horror films and being someone that watches a lot of horror, this is always near the.
Speaker A:Near the top of my list.
Speaker A:And I think a lot of reasons we've talked about it redefined horror at the time.
Speaker A:You can still see the impacts of this movie today, you know, 20 years later, 30 years later, 30 years later.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I mean, there's still.
Speaker A:I mean, enough that they've brought them back and they made them.
Speaker A:They made a whole TV show that was, you know, based around this thing.
Speaker A:And so it was.
Speaker A:It was a cultural shift in horror, which I love the second part is the writing is outrageous.
Speaker A:And then you add that with Wes Craven and his ability to take good writing and put it in a good movie and make something that's.
Speaker A:That makes sense.
Speaker A:And then just the acting across the board, like, it was another one where horror movies aren't known for their acting.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:It's a bunch of kids running around usually, or young adults and maybe some old people running around screaming, dying.
Speaker A:And it's just it.
Speaker A:This movie had some good acting and you needed it to carry this storyline.
Speaker A:And the fact that you're not relying on this unkillable villain or monster that's coming around and.
Speaker A:And that makes a difference.
Speaker A:And so I. I really appreciate that in this film.
Speaker A:And then as a jokingly side note, like, who doesn't want the Fawns as your principal?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, yeah.
Speaker A:And then to get killed.
Speaker A:Like the way that it just like the.
Speaker A:The mix of comedy within the horror, but it doesn't take away the intensity and feeling of discomfort that I had even as a horror fan, like, because it is brutal and it's real enough that you're like this.
Speaker A:And now even more so, like, this could be.
Speaker A:I could see this happening in a heartbeat, right?
Speaker A:Like somebody doing Something like this.
Speaker A:And so it's, it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's such a great amalgamation of so many good like traits put into one thing.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:It's a lightning in a bottle situation where everybody was giving up on horror.
Speaker A:They'll never make a great horror movie that's like worth watching.
Speaker A:And then this came out and then now I think we're coming up and this is a side note, but I think we're coming up on another needed reinvention of horror.
Speaker A:And I don't know what that looks like or where it should go, but I, I think this, we've ridden screams coattails for 30 years and we've come up with a lot of great.
Speaker A:But I think it's about time to, to reinvent horror again.
Speaker A:And I think there's some people that are working on it but like yeah, this, this changed horror for a long time and I.
Speaker A:It's so good.
Speaker A:So good.
Speaker A:So yeah, five for me.
Speaker A:And I will watch this anytime anywhere, no question.
Speaker B:See that's a tricky one for me, sure because I don't have that same watch it anytime all the time type thing.
Speaker B:But I also can't say anything really negative about it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It's a very personal choice to not watch it again.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's not anything to do with the mov a thing to do with me.
Speaker B:And so I think I also got to be a five.
Speaker B:And it's simply because of how well it's put together where even going in knowing Billy Loomis is the killer in the first 15 minutes, you see why.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, no, he's the killer.
Speaker B:The entire movie tells you he's the killer.
Speaker B:And I'm still sitting there going, there's no way he did it.
Speaker B:It was somebody else.
Speaker A:So good.
Speaker B:And so that kind of just brilliant story retelling is bar non amazing.
Speaker B:And then it's a complete movie.
Speaker B:There's no glaring issues or problems with it.
Speaker B:You could, you know, flag something.
Speaker B:Oh well, the acting was bad or you know, even the talking about why there's no bruises or marks on people that have been getting the kicked out of them.
Speaker B:It's like there really is no glaring flaw.
Speaker B:And in horror movies you typically have a very glaring flaw.
Speaker B:And it really any genre kind of shows or is not very strong in a certain area where it can, you can poke the holes into it.
Speaker B:This doesn't really have a glaring flaw to the point where you gotta really dive into story narrative to figure out, okay, now what's wrong with screaming?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah, it's it takes a very, very particular nitpicky to go through and figure everything out.
Speaker B:And some unlikely ads.
Speaker B:Pretty much perfect.
Speaker B:So I'm gonna give it five as well.
Speaker B:I will probably end up watching it again, but that's because really, my wife loves the movie and not because of anything I would do.
Speaker B:But yeah, it's a five for me.
Speaker A:Love that.
Speaker A:That makes me happy.
Speaker A:We got.
Speaker A:We got a five on a horror movie from Alec.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What are we doing?
Speaker A:Yeah, because it's so good, dude.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker B:That's, that's the thing.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's good.
Speaker B:It's really, really good.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's such a great story and, and well done.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:Well, there it is.
Speaker A:Scream.
Speaker A:Go check it out.
Speaker A:If you haven't.
Speaker A:If you haven't, man, enjoy it.
Speaker A:It'll be good.
Speaker A:If you have, go join again.
Speaker A:We know you love it.
Speaker B:I don't care for it.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:It's the right time.
Speaker A:Alec, tell everybody where they can find us when we're not dodging psychopathic movie copycat killers.
Speaker B:Happy to.
Speaker B:You can find us being the dodgy psychopathic copycat killers.
Speaker B:No, but the best place to find us is on YouTube where you see our smiling faces.
Speaker B:We talk about any and all movies.
Speaker B:Best place aside from that is on Patreon at what's our Verge reviews where you can actually get involved in the content creation like we've been talking about this month has been entirely Patreon suggested movies from our wonderful patron, Charles.
Speaker B:Thank you so much.
Speaker B:But Patreon's place to get involved when we do votes, you can vote there for absolutely free.
Speaker B:Behind a little bit of a paywall is upwards of 700 plus bonus content episodes.
Speaker B:Everything from bloopers and outtakes all the way up to full length movies of full length episodes of movies nobody should ever watch.
Speaker B:But we went ahead and did for you.
Speaker B:So that's all behind a little bit of paywall.
Speaker B:But to get involved in the actual content creation of the podcast is absolutely free on what's our verdict reviews on Patreon.
Speaker B:Aside from that, go get your W GG10 off your order for your green coffee bean.
Speaker B:Yes, Green coffee bean extract.
Speaker A:You got it.
Speaker B:Supplement 10 off your order with code R verdict.
Speaker B:So go get some.
Speaker B:We really appreciate it.
Speaker B:And with that, I'll kick it back to the king of Crash, The Maharaja of Mash.
Speaker A:A J.J. yes, sir.
Speaker A:Thanks, Alec.
Speaker A:Man.
Speaker A:I was thinking about lines and while you were doing that, like the one with Randy where Stu walks me.
Speaker A:He's out.
Speaker A:Gotta get a beer.
Speaker A:You want one?
Speaker A:No, I'm good.
Speaker A:I'll be right back.
Speaker A:He's like, see?
Speaker A:You play with the rules and you end up coming back.
Speaker A:He's, I'll see you in the kitchen with a knife.
Speaker A:And I'm like, oh, he did.
Speaker A:See him in the kitchen with a knife.
Speaker B:Later.
Speaker A:This movie, like, it just throws in your face constantly.
Speaker A:So I love it.
Speaker A:That, like, you bet your sweet ass I did.
Speaker A:Mom and dad are gonna be so mad at me.
Speaker A:Don't kill me, Mr. Ghostface.
Speaker A:I want to be in the sequel.
Speaker A:We should have talked about her death, too.
Speaker A:Because that was probably the only ridiculous death.
Speaker A:That garage door would not lift that girl.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Let alone get stuck.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker A:But it.
Speaker A:But it was an awesome, clever way to kill somebody.
Speaker A:Anyway.
Speaker A:There it is.
Speaker A:We appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker A:We'll catch you on the next one.
Speaker B:Hasta la vista, baby.
Speaker A:Cinemagica.
