Draft Day (2014)
JJ, Mattson and Alec jump into a comprehensive analysis of the film "Draft Day," a cinematic exploration of the intricate dynamics surrounding the NFL draft process. We delve into the multifaceted pressures faced by general managers as they navigate critical decisions that can alter the trajectory of their franchises. We engage in a discourse that juxtaposes personal experiences as fans of our respective teams with the film's portrayal of the often tumultuous atmosphere within a professional sports organization. The discussion further extends to the film's narrative techniques and character arcs, as we scrutinize the effectiveness of its storytelling. Ultimately, we reflect on how "Draft Day" resonates with both avid sports enthusiasts and casual viewers, prompting a broader contemplation of the intersection between sports and cinema.
Support us:
https://www.patreon.com/whatsourverdict
Email us:
hosts@whatsourverdict.com
Follow us:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/whatsourverdict
Twitter: @whatsourverdict
Instagram: @whatsourverdict
YouTube: https://youtube.com/channel/UC-K_E-ofs3b85BnoU4R6liA
Visit us:
www.whatsourverdict.com
Transcript
Well, and there's a lot of parallels too because as a Cleveland Browns fan.
Speaker B:If you can call it JJ's not an NFL fan, let's just let people.
Speaker A:Know because I'm a Cleveland Browns fan.
Speaker A:Like listen, it's not a way to live.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker B:Hey, I'm a, I'm a.
Speaker B:I was a Redskins now commander.
Speaker B:So I feel you, my friend.
Speaker A:Welcome to the what's Up Verdict podcast.
Speaker A:We fashion ourselves cinematic judge and Jerry.
Speaker A:My name is JJ Crider.
Speaker A:I'm here with my co host Matz.
Speaker B:Better Red Than Dead and Alec Burgess.
Speaker C:Let's get it.
Speaker A:We appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker A:Go and hit that follow subscribe like bell notification buttons.
Speaker A:I hope you keep up with all of our episodes as they come out here on YouTube or over on our wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker A:So do that help us grow the podcast.
Speaker A:Tell your friends about us, tell family members about us.
Speaker A:I mean if you know a pro football player, by all means, or a college football player that'll probably go pro, tell them about it too.
Speaker A:If you know football fans, just tell people that like football, we're good to go there too.
Speaker A:But yeah.
Speaker A:Welcome to week two of our Kevin Costner Sports Film Month.
Speaker A:We are kicking into week two with.
Speaker A:It's probably one of the more, the less famous ones of this, but I think it's a sleeper, which we'll talk about.
Speaker A:But yeah, we're doing Draft Day.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:It was written by Scott Rothman and Raheem Joseph.
Speaker A:It was directed by Ivan Reitman.
Speaker A:Stars Kevin Costner, Chadwick Boseman, Jennifer Garner, Frank Langella, Chris Berman, Dave Donaldson, Patrick Saint Esprit, Chai McBride, John Gruden and Mike Mayock.
Speaker A:We throw in a couple others but you know, we'll keep going.
Speaker A:But anyway, this movie is about.
Speaker A:At the NFL draft, general manager Sonny Weaver has the opportunity to rebuild his team when he trades for the number one pick.
Speaker A:Must decide what he's willing to sacrifice on a life changing day for a few hundred young men with NFL dreams.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:There's some, some interesting synopses for these Kevin Costner's films so far.
Speaker A:Matson, this was your pick, man.
Speaker A:Kick us off.
Speaker A:Tell us why you picked this one.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean we don't talk about sports a ton on here because we talk about movies, but I'm an avid sports fan.
Speaker B:I, I mean as we just talked about in our last podcast, JJ loves baseball and sports.
Speaker B:I love sports.
Speaker B:The sport I love the most for sure is football.
Speaker B:I prefer college over the NFL.
Speaker B:I mean, that's probably like, literally splitting hair.
Speaker B:Like, I just love football.
Speaker B:It's a sad day now.
Speaker B:There is no football.
Speaker B:I, it's, it's sad.
Speaker B:So I love sports.
Speaker B:And specifically, if you were to ask me, like, what job I would love to have if I wasn't, like, recruited, I could do it all over again.
Speaker B:One, I love to love work for a sports organization, but being like a general manager, I think would be amazing.
Speaker B:That being said, that job, while it can be extremely rewarding, is exceptionally difficult, full of pressure, and many times doesn't always go well.
Speaker B:And if it doesn't go well, you're not going to have a job.
Speaker B:So lots of pressure.
Speaker B:But I, I, I think it's an amazing position.
Speaker B:I really think when you look at this movie, it really shows, like, the inner workings of how an organization makes decisions on one of the most impactful and important days of a franchise being the draft, because you got to get new players, you got to make moves.
Speaker B:And I, as, as I've gotten older, I've become more fascinated in how teams grade players, why they draft, why they make trades, how they value their picks.
Speaker B:And I think this is just a great experience in peeling back the onion on if I was to step into a role like this, like, what were those days leading up and what would the day of that look like?
Speaker B:And I think they do a pretty good job.
Speaker B:And so, for that matter, this movie feels like something that I've seen through the lens of espn, but then Hollywood decided to do a deeper dive.
Speaker B:And it's intriguing to me.
Speaker B:It's got everything that I love.
Speaker B:And again, this movie is about football, but it's not really, like, about football football.
Speaker B:It's about the behind the scenes of it and the really important decisions that are made because there's not really much on the field action.
Speaker B:In fact, there's, like, very little.
Speaker B:But then I think the more you become a fan of, like, Jay with the Buckeyes or me with the commanders at byu, the more you understand about your team.
Speaker B:You understand most of the reason your team is good is because you have to make those decisions on which players to put in the right positions.
Speaker B:And if you don't have that, then don't matter what you do on Sunday or Saturday, it's not going to work.
Speaker B:So I really like this movie because it's, it's all things that I like.
Speaker B:It just gets into more the, the finite details.
Speaker A:Fair enough.
Speaker A:Alec, I'm very curious.
Speaker A:Had you seen this movie before?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:No surprise.
Speaker A:J.J.
Speaker A:no, absolutely not.
Speaker C:Why would I have seen this movie before?
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker C:And I was.
Speaker C:I was hating it at first because I saw the clock tick down and that's a type of movie I don't appreciate.
Speaker C:Is like.
Speaker C:Like I can't watch this TV series 24 because of the clock.
Speaker B:Oh, 24 is like the.
Speaker C:The countdown.
Speaker C:I hate it.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:Because I just don't get that point or that purpose.
Speaker C:But I enjoyed this and it.
Speaker C:The not understanding.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:A lot of the mechanics that go into draft day or the draft rules or whatever it is.
Speaker C:I was kind of sitting there going, wouldn't it be better just to, you know, take the number one pick, pick the guy that everybody says is going to go, and then trade him later?
Speaker C:And so I was sitting there thinking this as it's going through, but that obviously doesn't build suspense.
Speaker C:And so, you know, building up to the climax, everything's going.
Speaker C:I was like, okay, like, I enjoyed it.
Speaker C:It was a good movie.
Speaker C:I liked it.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker B:In the sports world, why they didn't do that is because if they drafted Bo Callahan and he was what they found out two years later, he would have sucked.
Speaker B:He would have been a complete failure, and no one would have given him the compensation that they lost for drafting him.
Speaker B:That does happen a lot in sports.
Speaker B:Quite a bit.
Speaker B:And I think that's.
Speaker A:I know you're about Cleveland Browns.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The funny part about this is the team that was.
Speaker B:They worried about this happening to.
Speaker B:They would have actually drafted Bocalhan Alec and messed up and would have had a complete dumpster fire.
Speaker B:Which was funny because whoever decided to pick the Browns, they were probably trying to do a nice dose of karma to say, you know what?
Speaker B:It's going to change our fortunes.
Speaker B:It's going to.
Speaker B:It didn't work.
Speaker B:They're still terrible this year.
Speaker B:They usually did around.
Speaker C:Isn't that when the movie came out, the year that they drafted Manziel?
Speaker B:Yes, I think.
Speaker B:And that, I mean, it's funny because Bo Callahan, like a lot of what they were like, I was like, oh, they made a drone or drew some inspiration from like the quarterback who was going to go with the first pick.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, and there's a lot of parallels, too, because as a Cleveland Browns fan, if you can call it jj.
Speaker B:Is not an NFL fan.
Speaker B:Just let people know.
Speaker A:Because I'm a Cleveland Browns fan.
Speaker A:Like, listen, it's not a way to live.
Speaker B:I'm a.
Speaker B:I'm a.
Speaker B:I was a Redskins now commander, so I feel you, my friend.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:But Being a Browns, we have life.
Speaker B:We have life now, I should say.
Speaker A:Yeah, we don't.
Speaker A:We won't ever.
Speaker A:Like, the Browns are terrible.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Yeah, they're.
Speaker A:They.
Speaker A:They suck.
Speaker A:And they have broken my heart many years.
Speaker A:For 40 years, I gave up on them.
Speaker A:Still don't.
Speaker A:I don't watch pro football because it hurts my soul.
Speaker A:Anyway.
Speaker A:No, look, I watched.
Speaker A:I did not go see this in theaters.
Speaker A:And it's funny because I was living in Ohio when this came out, and I was like, I can't.
Speaker A:Why do I want to go watch a movie about one of the most painful things that I live through every year?
Speaker A:Because I watch the draft and try to keep up with who the Browns pick.
Speaker A:Every time those clowns pick a quarterback, I go, well, there's another one that's gonna.
Speaker A:The bed just because they're going to Cleveland.
Speaker A:And so it's.
Speaker A:For me, I didn't want to watch this movie, but Casey has an obsession with Kevin Costner.
Speaker A:And so we were home one day and we were streaming and it was.
Speaker A:It popped up somewhere and so we watched it.
Speaker A:And it's now become a staple in our house.
Speaker A:Like, we watch it quite often because at the end of the day, it's a pretty fun movie.
Speaker A:Like, it's.
Speaker A:It's entertaining.
Speaker A:There's some interesting things that you learn.
Speaker A:Like, if you don't know anything about the draft, you get to see some interesting concepts around, like player choice and the stress of what it would be like to make that.
Speaker A:And then there's some really great dialogue in this movie that's just makes me laugh.
Speaker A:And it's so ridiculous.
Speaker A:Like, you'll hear in my house between Casey and I.
Speaker A:And I'm sure Matson, I'm sure you both have heard me say it.
Speaker A:Like, show Johnny over here.
Speaker A:Like, that's one of my.
Speaker A:Like when he's yelling at that kid about the tapes for Bo Callahead, and he's like, show Johnny over here.
Speaker A:Doesn't know what the hell he's doing.
Speaker A:Like, we use that line all the time.
Speaker A:Then there's the one where they're in the closet for the second time, and he's like.
Speaker A:And Ralph the security guy comes in.
Speaker A:He's like, everybody cozy?
Speaker A:I can't even.
Speaker A:So there's just so many, like, great one liners and, like, little pieces of dialogue.
Speaker A:But there's also some pretty serious conversations that happen.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, I can't imagine, to Max's point, like, the one job that I look at from an NFL Perspective or sports in general.
Speaker A:Not just NFL, but pro sports.
Speaker A:As much as it might be cool to be a gm, like, I don't know if I could handle that kind of.
Speaker A:Because it falls all.
Speaker A:It's all on you.
Speaker A:Like there's no backstop safety net.
Speaker A:Like you it up, you it up.
Speaker A:And there's a lot of opportunity to mess up.
Speaker A:Especially like on a draft day where you're trying to get cute.
Speaker A:And he's not wrong.
Speaker A:Like that line where he's talking to the young, the Jeff guy, Jeff Carson on the Jacksonville Jaguars, the end.
Speaker A:And he's like, you know, every year somebody comes out of this looking like a donkey.
Speaker A:Like everybody.
Speaker A:Every year without fail, there's a team that someone's like, well, that GM up.
Speaker A:Like it just.
Speaker A:And so I really like how they really used kind of what it feels like.
Speaker A:But then the build up and I just really enjoy this movie more, more than I care to admit.
Speaker A:Like, it's a movie I'll tell people about.
Speaker A:And I'm like, you should watch it.
Speaker A:It's really.
Speaker A:And I'm all sheepish about it because it's like I shouldn't like this movie this much, but I do, I like it quite a bit.
Speaker A:What about you, Alex?
Speaker A:So you knew?
Speaker A:Not a huge sports guy.
Speaker A:Don't love.
Speaker A:Like, what made you enjoy this movie?
Speaker C:It was the two things, really.
Speaker C:One was the wrap up, right?
Speaker C:Where he kind of gets in the war room and he's got.
Speaker C:And he's in his element now.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And like, and then the reason that he got to that point, right?
Speaker C:Because he has zero peace the entire day.
Speaker C:Like everything or everybody's, you know, shit's burning down, house is on fire and he's going around, dude, it's draft day.
Speaker C:Like, there's 364 other goddamn days where you can bring this up, but on this one day is where it's all just piling on.
Speaker C:Like his mom showing up.
Speaker C:We're gonna read your dad's ashes with the Celtic prayer on the fifth year.
Speaker C:And he's like, do you not know what today is?
Speaker C:And so like this whole process of him getting to this position where by the time it's draft time, he just does not care because it's almost like he's getting in his own head the entire time, right?
Speaker C:He's listening to the radio and start talking about him.
Speaker C:That's like the one thing you're not supposed to do, right?
Speaker C:You post a video, don't read the comments or, you know, you're, you're in that position.
Speaker C:Don't listen to what they're saying about you on the radio.
Speaker C:Just don't pay attention to it.
Speaker C:And that's what you tell pro athletes all the time as well.
Speaker C:It's like, hey, don't post.
Speaker C:Don't do nothing.
Speaker C:And this is just gearing him up so it gets him out of his own head.
Speaker C:And now he's able to kind of go in there and he just says it, and then he makes his move.
Speaker C:And then he, you know, almost verbatim goes back on the Seahawks from the beginning of the movie where he gets the one pick and he just hits him back with the zingers.
Speaker C:And, you know, by the time you get to pancake eating, I'm like, dude, let's go.
Speaker C:Browns are gonna win it all this year.
Speaker A:It f me.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And so it's.
Speaker C:It's that kind of buildup in the process that they get to, you know, to the end.
Speaker C:And in my opinion, you know, that's something that this movie earns, that ending.
Speaker C:Whereas if you did it a different way, it would almost feel like, oh, this is Hollywood, you know, kind of show garbage.
Speaker C:But they earned the payoff by having this build up.
Speaker C:Get there.
Speaker A:I like it.
Speaker A:I love that scene at the end when he uses all the callbacks from the previous conversations.
Speaker A:He's like, we live in a different world.
Speaker A:We did just 30 seconds ago.
Speaker A:Like, I can give you the.
Speaker A:I've got the golden ticket, Tom.
Speaker C:Yeah, you can say football in Seattle.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:You get your boy Wonder.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:But I think one of my favorite parts in that is the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The realization when he says, and you get your boy wonder for $7 million less.
Speaker A:And you watch that owner on the other side go, oh, good point.
Speaker A:Which can then convinces Tom to say, okay, we'll figure it out.
Speaker A:The other part that I love is the.
Speaker A:When he puts him on hold, like, he gets the, okay, we'll do it.
Speaker A:The whole.
Speaker A:What else do we need?
Speaker A:Like, I'm gonna leverage the out of this guy.
Speaker A:He's like, and I want David Putney just because I goddamn feel like it.
Speaker A:Like, I just like that whole.
Speaker A:You're right.
Speaker A:That whole sequence right down to I call my father in law.
Speaker A:And I told my father in law about this movie Casey and I did.
Speaker A:And so they watch it all the time too now.
Speaker A:But, like, we call it, you pancake eating.
Speaker A:Like, we do that all the time just because it's such a great line.
Speaker A:But there's a lot of that throughout the movie.
Speaker A:And Some interesting bits, I think, for me, one of the things that I like the most about the story, but it's usually something that I hate about movies is, like, when it's a bunch of scenes, right?
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:But this movie's full of those.
Speaker A:Like, I also laugh when he's meeting with Ralph and he's like, how'd you know there's a butt?
Speaker A:Because you're an unoriginal bastard, Ralph.
Speaker A:Like, it's just these whole little individual conversations that he has throughout the movie are so good.
Speaker A:And his delivery is great.
Speaker A:Like, it's so not my normal Kevin Costner experience that this movie.
Speaker A:And then I love the visuals of, like, the almost comic book, like, where you get to see him, like, when he's looking in the mirror having a panic attack.
Speaker A:Because, like, Brian Drew's doing great, and he's got this quarterback that he now should draft, so he's putting the water on his face.
Speaker A:But you also get to see Jennifer Carter's character basically doing the same thing.
Speaker A:Like those subtle little camera angles and split shots.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:It's quirky and weird and it's not something I usually like, but it works in this movie for me.
Speaker A:There's a lot of weird things about this movie that I'm like.
Speaker A:I don't want to like this, but I do.
Speaker A:Well, you, Matthew, what gets you going on this movie, besides the GM and football?
Speaker B:I mean, I think that one of the things that sticks out to me that I like is the.
Speaker B:What happens a lot in the draft process is the.
Speaker B:The arc of someone's like, the bona fide number one, like the Bo Callahan, but then there's, like, kind of an underdog that starts to get picked up.
Speaker B:Like the.
Speaker B:The linebacker in this movie, his name Ray or Ray Jennings or something, or not.
Speaker B:So running back, but then the other guy who.
Speaker B:And if you have off the field stuff, like, teams are looking at character, they're looking at iq, they're looking at injury history.
Speaker B:They're doing all these things.
Speaker B:And it's part of.
Speaker B:It's how well can you sell yourself?
Speaker B:How well can your agent put you out there?
Speaker B:Can they drum up the buzz?
Speaker B:Like, there's a player right now in this year's draft, Jackson Dart from the Ole Miss sec, who wasn't on the first round radar, but he had a great Senior bowl day.
Speaker B:And you can see all this stuff like that.
Speaker B:They're saying he could go in the first round.
Speaker B:And, like, it wasn't a first round, if you asked anyone, like, a month ago.
Speaker B:But now he might be and he's a player that if you insert him into the draft day process, his character is good.
Speaker B:But a lot of GMs, if they were in this movie, would be leery of like, I don't know, does he have the town?
Speaker B:Like, am I gonna be the donkey in this situation or did I find the diamond in the rough?
Speaker B:And I like that.
Speaker B:This movie shows.
Speaker B:They simplify it obviously, but they show some of the dynamics of having the interviews, asking the tough questions, doing like the private investigator work to be like, well, what really happened at this party?
Speaker B:Like, what, do his teammates really like him?
Speaker B:His teammates don't like him.
Speaker B:He's probably not a good character guy.
Speaker B:That may sound simple in the movie.
Speaker B:That is real.
Speaker B:Like they'll if tell you right now one of JJ's favorite players on the buckets, it was a good quarterback, but his team didn't like him.
Speaker B:It's a lot that you need to know about the character, the kid, if he's going to come play for you because his team probably wouldn't like him and maybe he will flame out, maybe he won't get the support.
Speaker B:And they simplify that.
Speaker B:But that stuff is a huge decision factor because in these sports, like you have the talent, but like the Johnny Manziel, for instance, if you don't have the character, you are going to get eaten alive and you're going to make your organization look absolutely laughable.
Speaker B:Like he did to the Browns if they had drafted like Bo Callahan in this example.
Speaker B:And so I thought that was.
Speaker B:It was less about like, can this.
Speaker B:Is this guy good on the field?
Speaker B:Is this person good off the field?
Speaker B:Is.
Speaker B:And we.
Speaker B:You always hear the word intangibles.
Speaker B:They didn't really use that in this movie, but that's like the bit, the big thing.
Speaker B:And I think they did a really good job of that.
Speaker B:I liked how they also woven like real life ESPN into this.
Speaker B:Like it felt authentic.
Speaker B:I think that's what this movie really delivered on is it felt very real in that sense.
Speaker B:And I appreciated the realism above all things.
Speaker B:I think what's hard about this movie is just by the makeup of it is you're trying to condense something that's so big and fast paced into a movie that you're going to be cutting corners.
Speaker B:And if there are fans that are more difficult than Star wars fans, it's sports fans.
Speaker B:And if you don't like hold everything to the letter of the law, they're going to call you out on it.
Speaker B:And there's Definitely some pitfalls in this movie in terms of the over dramatization of all the decisions being.
Speaker B:Being made in such a short span of time and.
Speaker B:And the.
Speaker B:The evaluations and how they're glossing things.
Speaker B:They can't do everything perfect in like an hour and a half movie.
Speaker B:But I appreciate this movie.
Speaker B:Tried really hard to paint the picture of something that I really enjoy.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I like how they did take it to the extreme.
Speaker A:Like, there's the conversation with the guys that he tells to look at Beau Callahan.
Speaker A:They're all sitting around looking at that computer, at how many chicks he's sleeping with.
Speaker A:But when he gets all serious, like, he's like, guys.
Speaker A:And they're like, what, man?
Speaker A:He doesn't speak French real good.
Speaker A:You know?
Speaker A:And they're down to that point, and it sounds ridiculous, but that's the shit that they look at, like, to the level of they can tell you what this guy's grades were, where he struggled, they're finding out what his teammates thought about him.
Speaker A:Does he have bad habits?
Speaker A:Does like.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:Some of these speeches that we get throughout the film, I love the moments that we get the explainer parts, like, because this movie is obviously built for sports fans and for those of us that haven't understood, even on a small level of understanding of what the draft is and how serious it is, like, we look at this and go, this is great.
Speaker A:But they also make the explainers interesting for those of us that already understand it.
Speaker A:Like in that moment when he explains, like, look, everybody's got something.
Speaker A:They didn't think Peyton Manning had an arm, and they thought Joe Montana was too small, but it didn't matter, and we need to figure out what his thing is and does it matter?
Speaker A:And that little explanation for two and a half minutes, like, for me and talking to Casey, who's not a football fan, like, outside of she watches it because I'm watching it.
Speaker A:Like, that kind of helps it make enough sense for her as to what the important part is.
Speaker A:And then we're talking about those to match, support the intangibles.
Speaker A:There's things that you can't measure but need to be measured in some way, shape or form or at least discussed.
Speaker A:So I love those explainers.
Speaker A:And then you also have, like, the one where Ali's talking about.
Speaker A:She's having this dilemma between what he should do, and he's like, he's a winner.
Speaker A:Talking about Bo Callahan.
Speaker A:He's a winner.
Speaker A:He's won everywhere he's went.
Speaker A:And she goes, yeah, that's the same thing they said about Ryan Leaf when he went number two.
Speaker A:Ryan Leaf tanked.
Speaker A:Like, he was a terrible draft at number two, but he was great in college.
Speaker A:And then you have where she.
Speaker A:On the flip side, she goes, tom Brady was like, 126th or whatever it was that he went.
Speaker A:Became arguably the greatest quarterback the NFL's had up to this point.
Speaker A:So it's like, the draft is not a perfect science either.
Speaker A:Like, there's no one.
Speaker A:And I love that they talk.
Speaker A:There's no way.
Speaker A:There's no such thing, she says, as a sure thing.
Speaker A:Like, you just have to parse it out and figure it out.
Speaker A:And I love to, as a Browns fan, let me step in and say I get frustrated when everybody's after the quarterback.
Speaker A:And I get that it's the linchpin of a football team, at least on the offensive side and arguably the most important position that you can.
Speaker A:Phil.
Speaker A:But at the same time, like, it's one of the least consistent when it comes to, like, the greats and finding a great quarterback.
Speaker A:So I always get super frustrated because that's one of the first things that Cleveland, in all of their real life history, has always looked at.
Speaker A:And they always, like, there's.
Speaker A:There's a guy somewhere in Cleveland fandom that has this vest that he's taken and put patches of every single quarterback's name that they've had over, like, the last 10 years.
Speaker A:There's like 35 of them.
Speaker A:Because the Cleveland Browns cannot.
Speaker A:It doesn't matter which of their three owners in the last 20 years they're talking about.
Speaker A:They all think that everything revolves completely around the quarterback.
Speaker A:And so they end up with these show quarterbacks or they get a good one and they don't give them a chance to develop or get them the right tools.
Speaker A:And so watching this Baker Mayfield, and he's not the only one.
Speaker A:Like, there's been other ones that I think would have been better if they give him a chance and they load it up around him.
Speaker A:But he's the most obvious recent one.
Speaker A:Go somewhere where they give him the support he needs and he shows out.
Speaker A:And here I'm like, goddamn, Cleveland.
Speaker A:Then we.
Speaker A:Anyway, I'll stop.
Speaker A:But that's one of the things that I love about this movie is, like, it shows him going, quarterback can't be the only thing we're looking at.
Speaker A:And now he gets a running back, this great linebacker.
Speaker A:And while it was the most goofy, roundabout way that I don't think in any real GM would ever do, especially a seasoned one they're going to take whatever pick they're going to take at seven and they're going to leave it alone because there's too much risk inherent in what he's doing.
Speaker A:And to be honest, if it hadn't been that they.
Speaker A:He started dropping after he didn't pick him number one and trading up to get him, and everybody's like, oh, something's got to be wrong.
Speaker A:He would have never got the chance to do it.
Speaker A:He would have up and gotten shit canned for drafting Vonte Mack at one.
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:It's just the little nuance and the interesting pieces of this that I really.
Speaker A:They did a good job showing it and they made it fun to.
Speaker B:When's the last time a linebacker went number one, though?
Speaker B:Like, never.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker B:That's where I was like, you could at least put in like a.
Speaker B:A defensive end or like another quarterback or maybe a wide receiver or something.
Speaker A:Linebackers tackle or something.
Speaker A:Like, something.
Speaker B:Linebackers never go one.
Speaker B:I was like, that's.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:Linebackers are lucky to go in the first round.
Speaker A:It's just like Ray.
Speaker A:They were talking to Ray Lewis in that, and he's like.
Speaker A:The owner's like, when did you go again?
Speaker A:Second, third.
Speaker A:He's like, oh, 26th.
Speaker A:It still hurts.
Speaker A:That's a linebacker's number.
Speaker A:If you're going in the first round, you're going 20th to 32 or whatever, because you're not.
Speaker A:You're not a linchpin position.
Speaker A:You don't make.
Speaker A:You can bring change, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You think about Ray Lewis.
Speaker A:He was one of the.
Speaker A:Maybe the greatest line, one of the greatest linebackers.
Speaker A:Mike Singletary.
Speaker A:Those guys didn't go number one.
Speaker A:They didn't even go top 20.
Speaker B:So it's like, that was old football.
Speaker B:When you love the linebacker, like, it's spack.
Speaker B:A running back.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:That's the one thing in this movie that when I look at that, I was like, they did a lot in terms of realism.
Speaker B:Why didn't they just change the position?
Speaker B:Like, why.
Speaker B:Why that position?
Speaker B:I was like, that doesn't line up very well.
Speaker B:I'd be honest with you.
Speaker B:I don't have, like, a ton more to say about the movie in the sense that it's.
Speaker B:It's pretty straightforward in terms of what it presents to me.
Speaker B:It's not like a lot of.
Speaker B:I think one of the things that this movie doesn't do as well is I don't think there's a ton of character development in this movie.
Speaker B:I think there's a lot of it happened so fast and things are there that it's telling the story it needs to tell.
Speaker B:But I don't think, like, I don't think that's really the main message of this movie either.
Speaker B:For my opinion, I don't care so much about.
Speaker B:Why am I forgetting his name?
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:What's Kevin Costner's character's name?
Speaker C:Sunny Weaver.
Speaker A:Sonny Weaver.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:Sonny.
Speaker B:Sonny Weaver.
Speaker B:And Ally, like the whole like she's pregnant.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I think that was dumb.
Speaker B:I don't need that.
Speaker B:I don't care so much about all those ancillary things.
Speaker B:I just like what they show and what they tell me and the realism.
Speaker B:But I think they, they try to create some other storylines.
Speaker B:Most particularly that one.
Speaker B:I'm like, I didn't need it.
Speaker B:Like, you could have just showed me another part of the draft process and I probably would have liked that more.
Speaker B:And then I think the character progression, again, I don't think it's super important for a movie like this because they're telling the narrative of what a day like this is.
Speaker B:And I don't think you're gonna have some like massive character arc.
Speaker B:And I don't think it's like a huge hindrance, but it's kind of what you see is what you get.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think for a movie that's playing a 24 hour time period, it's hard to put too much character development.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Because like you say, it's unrealistic that they're going to completely change their stripes in 24 hours.
Speaker A:And I'm with you.
Speaker B:24.
Speaker B:Where they do get out of.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's a whole different discussion.
Speaker A:I hated that show too, anyway.
Speaker A:But I do think, and I'm with you, like I don't need the whole alley storyline.
Speaker A:I like the storyline more about his dad.
Speaker A:Like I would have liked to have seen a little bit more about that whole dynamic because the idea of like him firing his dad and then the struggles that he had, like, so I think that's cool.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:But I know why they put in the alley story.
Speaker A: u put in a Jennifer Garner in: Speaker A:It's another draw.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:The other pieces is you're.
Speaker A:You're playing to a.
Speaker A:Your non core audience for this movie.
Speaker A:Like sports fans like you and I.
Speaker A:I don't give a about the love story aspect of it.
Speaker A:I want to know the sports stuff.
Speaker A:Casey watches.
Speaker A:She cares a little bit more about how that impacts this guy in his life.
Speaker A:And I Also understand to Alex point, we got to put this dude through the ringer so that he gets his payoff at the end.
Speaker A:I think my big issue is I wish they would have ended it at the party versus going up and having to resolve that storyline of Ali and him being public and his mom and.
Speaker A:And that whole she gets her name right.
Speaker A:While I don't hate that scene, like, it pulls me out of this wonderfully successful winning moment that he has where he goes through this draft process, he knocks the socks off this other gm that's him over earlier in the day.
Speaker A:And then you see these draft picks and how like the success and then we go up and it's like we end with this weird ass Kevin Costner kiss with a woman that I'm like, I doubt they're gonna actually be together.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:So I have this hard.
Speaker A:So I'm with you.
Speaker A:I don't love that.
Speaker A:But I know why they did it.
Speaker A:It was to drag in the non typical sports movie audience.
Speaker A:Like, if there's a love story and an angle there, then maybe those that aren't just sports fans latch onto that a little bit more.
Speaker A:And it does add the drama.
Speaker A:And I, you know, the fact that he's chasing her ass the whole day does make me laugh.
Speaker A:And like, where he's asked the kid Rick, the intern Rick may be one of my favorite characters in this movie because he's always there and like, he's always the reason for some weird.
Speaker A:Like they go in the closet, he knocks on the door, Brian Drew just trashed your office.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:Well, he told me, I asked him, he asked me if you're there.
Speaker A:I said no.
Speaker A:He said, don't go in there.
Speaker A:He told me to have.
Speaker A:Go have intercourse with my mother, who she died.
Speaker A:But that doesn't matter.
Speaker A:Just like, what the hell?
Speaker A:And then when he goes to him and he's like, rick, did you hear me?
Speaker A:I heard you.
Speaker A:Do you think Ally heard me?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Good answer.
Speaker A:Problem is, women are tricky.
Speaker A:They're smarter than us.
Speaker A:Like, there's some great moments that that relationship and that storyline create.
Speaker A:But at the end of the day, I don't love that it ends on that note because I don't, I don't have the buy into that, that I just watched him win.
Speaker A:And so I'm like, whatever.
Speaker A:I wish they'd have done that scene earlier.
Speaker A:But I understand that they couldn't because it's all wrapped up in the success of the day.
Speaker A:And he started off and most of the day was A show.
Speaker A:But God bless America.
Speaker A:There's some great ass one liners in this movie.
Speaker A:Like, just love.
Speaker A:And I love him getting caught too.
Speaker A:Like the coach from Wisconsin.
Speaker A:And he's like, yeah, let's think this through for a second.
Speaker A:Could it be that, you know, you don't want to get jammed up so they didn't tell anybody, but then they keep playing it on, like the kids, like, you know, I don't remember anything from that day.
Speaker A:I'm like, look, dude, I've been blackout drunk quite a few times.
Speaker A:You remember getting there, like, it's not like you just don't remember anything at all.
Speaker A:Like you.
Speaker A:There's a point where it goes, whoop, I'm done.
Speaker A:And your brain went, nope.
Speaker A:Can't process the alcohol and the memories.
Speaker A:But yeah, he'd have known if his teammates were there.
Speaker A:And so, I don't know.
Speaker A:Interesting concept, but I, I really, I love this movie more than I should.
Speaker A:How about that?
Speaker A:More than I feel like I should.
Speaker A:But I.
Speaker A:That's interesting.
Speaker A:There's also some terrible too.
Speaker A:Like, I don't love the one guy from the Texans when he's like, tell me about Vonte Mack.
Speaker A:He was such a terrible delivery.
Speaker A:Somebody's gonna draft him.
Speaker A:You didn't think he was gonna fall to the second round, did you?
Speaker A:What are you talking about?
Speaker A:But there's also some great ones, like the Buffalo thing where he's like, you got half that hangs up because the owner's like a dick.
Speaker A:Was great.
Speaker A:So it's just great moments.
Speaker A:Not a, I don't know, interesting movie.
Speaker A:Should we rate it?
Speaker B:The last thing I'll say, just in terms of portrayal is the tension that is created between owner, coach and gm.
Speaker B:I think they, I mean, they overdramatize it for the sake of the movie.
Speaker B:But some teams in the NFL will just call it what it is.
Speaker B:I mean, you look at last year, we'll just say the Cowboys, Jerry Jones and Mike McCarthy and, well, they don't even really have a GM.
Speaker B:It's their owner basically in their lives, their problem.
Speaker B:But you've got some other organizations like the Eagles with Nick Seri, who won the super bowl, ironically enough.
Speaker B:But the Howie Roseman, Nick Ceriani, and I, for the life of me, cannot name their owner.
Speaker B:There's definitely tension.
Speaker B:They almost fired their coach after they imploded and lost like eight games in a row.
Speaker B:And they had a phenomenal draft this year.
Speaker B:But I promise you, there was some absolute tension between all three of those individuals.
Speaker B:Without a doubt, paid off.
Speaker B:And Won the Super Bowl.
Speaker B:But you're a GM in Philly of probably of almost all cities, man, I can't think of maybe a more stressful job than being the general manager of the Philadelphia Eagles.
Speaker B:Maybe the coach is the only other thing because, dude, all it takes is like a game and a half and those fans will boo you right out of your own building.
Speaker B:You're like, you just lost one game.
Speaker B:And I did like that.
Speaker B:They showed a lot of that because that stuff happens a lot.
Speaker B:We don't really get to see it because if you're a good organization, you keep that stuff buttoned up.
Speaker B:Like Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick and Tom Brady.
Speaker B:They didn't all.
Speaker B:Brady and Kraft liked each other a lot.
Speaker B:Belichick and Tom Brady didn't.
Speaker B:They never went to dinner once.
Speaker B:Bill Belichick and Kraft, towards the end, certainly weren't buddy.
Speaker B:Buddy.
Speaker B:But they still won Super Bowls, but they kept it in house.
Speaker B:So I think it's a good example in life that if drama is leaking out to others, that's usually a good indicator that a lot more is happening internally.
Speaker B:Like, that's the old age thing of like, off.
Speaker B:They're fighting in public.
Speaker B:What are they doing in private?
Speaker B:Like, yeah.
Speaker B:Usually rings pretty true.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's a.
Speaker A:It's a good point.
Speaker A:Like that.
Speaker A:Yeah, that level attention.
Speaker A:Good old Jimmy Haslam.
Speaker A:I can relate.
Speaker A:Jimmy Haslam and the last 19 coaches.
Speaker A:So at the Cleveland.
Speaker A:But yeah, it just breaks my heart because every time I watch this movie, I'm like, man, I wish we could get a team that seems this good in Cleveland.
Speaker B:Just funny because all these owners, they're clearly very smart individuals because most of them are self made billionaires.
Speaker B:And it's not like they're just taking daddy's money.
Speaker B:Like most of them, they, they did it.
Speaker B:But when it comes to sports, they just make really poor decisions because they cannot let go.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, the Raider, Al Davis, are you me right now?
Speaker A:Like, that's an owner that's stepped in it many, many times.
Speaker B:He's paying four coaches currently.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know.
Speaker A:Or guys cuckoo for Cocoa Puff because.
Speaker B:He'S run three of them out of town.
Speaker B:He, like, shouldn't have hired a few of them.
Speaker A:But yeah, yeah, they're all trying to reinvent the wheel.
Speaker A:Like, Jimmy Haslam created the football something, something, something position.
Speaker A:It's basically like the money ball for football guy.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:I'm like, dude, you just.
Speaker A:You own the Browns.
Speaker A:Get used to heartbreak.
Speaker B:Like guaranteed contract to A player that good, but clearly not good anymore and has just been laughed at by other teams and owners.
Speaker B:And that player has been horrific.
Speaker B:And just walking around with the bag, having played barely any football.
Speaker A:I was gonna say, I'm pretty sure he was guaranteed right around $250 million and yeah, played like 12 snaps since he got that.
Speaker A:I'm like.
Speaker A:Or 12 games.
Speaker B:He's played more than that.
Speaker B:He's played like 12 games now over like a span of three years, which is nothing.
Speaker A:Yeah, but he's played like in 95.
Speaker B:He's been horrible.
Speaker A:When all of our backups, including a very old man in football terms, comes in and shows your ass what's what.
Speaker A:But they can't.
Speaker A:The Browns can't get away from it because they spent $250 million on this.
Speaker A:So it's about time to just get rid of his ass, eat your money and go away.
Speaker A:Because now your other players that are actually good are wanting to leave because you brought it.
Speaker A:This dipshit.
Speaker A:You could have picked any quarterback in the country and paid him a fraction and been in a better place than we anyway.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker B:Imagine what Sonny.
Speaker B:Sonny Weaver would have said.
Speaker B:What one liner would he have for that gm?
Speaker B:It would have been a good one.
Speaker A:Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane is what he was.
Speaker A:Would have said.
Speaker A:I love that line too.
Speaker A:I have 56 Janes in the locker room.
Speaker A:I could use it.
Speaker A:Or Tarzan.
Speaker A:I could use a Jane.
Speaker A:Anyway, I don't think we started on the coach bonehead move.
Speaker B:All right, I'll rate it.
Speaker B:I guess I'm first, right?
Speaker B:I'll give it a three and a half.
Speaker B:Like there's definitely.
Speaker B:For the average individual watching, especially if you're not a sports fan.
Speaker B:I'm surprised that Alec like it.
Speaker B:I think they do enough to explain the inner workings of it, but it'll be a little bit foreign to you.
Speaker B:But I also know some sports fans are really particular and it's not going to cross every T and dot every I.
Speaker B:I think we talked about some of the things that it's a little bit over dramatized.
Speaker B:It can feel a little bit jarring to move fast and then kind of move slower.
Speaker B:Some of the ancillary plot points some hit, many don't.
Speaker B:But I think if you like sports, you're gonna like.
Speaker B:Especially sports.
Speaker B:If you like football.
Speaker B:It's hard not to like like this movie to an extent to kind of see behind the scenes.
Speaker B:If you're not a sports fan and you're married to one or you just.
Speaker B:I don't know why, really randomly, Because Alec never would have watched this movie ever in a million years, but he liked it enough.
Speaker B:But if you like the NFL, go watch this movie.
Speaker B:Like you should have seen it already.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm gonna give it a four.
Speaker A:I think it was a surprise for me.
Speaker A:Like I went into it when we watched it, like I had wanted nothing to do with it.
Speaker A:One, it dredges up old trauma for me with the Cleveland Browns my whole life and.
Speaker A:But two, like, I just, I was like, this just doesn't look like a movie I'm interested in.
Speaker A:Even though I love football and I, I actually enjoy the draft.
Speaker A:I don't watch pro football hardly at all, but I watch a ton of college and so I enjoy watching these guys get drafted as I've been watching their careers over two, three years, you know, and so it's like interesting to me, but I just had no interest.
Speaker A:But when I watched it, like I fell in love with it and I still to this day just enjoy the.
Speaker A:Out of watching this.
Speaker A:We watched it.
Speaker A:Casey and I told we gotta watch Draft Day again for the podcast.
Speaker A:She's like, yes.
Speaker A:And so we turned it on.
Speaker A:I had a great time and she was watching.
Speaker A:I was out playing my Star wars game a few weeks ago and she texted me and she goes, you pancakey.
Speaker A:And I was like, oh, you're watching Draft Day, huh?
Speaker A:She's like, yeah.
Speaker A:So it's just like, it's one of those things.
Speaker A:And so for Casey to be able to watch a movie that's core built around this sport, right?
Speaker A:And the, this one day in a, in a sport like, and enjoy it, to me is a testament of the fact that it's actually a pretty good movie regardless of what I want to say about it in my rational brain.
Speaker A:But yeah, four for me.
Speaker A:I'll definitely watch it anytime.
Speaker A:I think it's funny, I think it's got great one liners, the acting is really good, it's interesting.
Speaker A:There's some really strange story lines that don't need to be there, even though I get why they are.
Speaker A:But overall, like, it's just entertaining, which I think is if you get away from trying to make it a Oscar performance, which it's not.
Speaker A:It's just fun and it's entertaining and I like that.
Speaker A:So four for me.
Speaker A:I'll watch it anytime.
Speaker A:Alec, bring us home, buddy.
Speaker C:I'm also gonna give it a three and a half.
Speaker C:I've never watched a draft.
Speaker C:I will never watch the draft.
Speaker C:I don't give a flying about who gets drafted where, don't care.
Speaker C:And so for me, all the little side stories that kind of hurt you guys actually made this movie better because I get that payoff.
Speaker C:I get the reason behind the saddest dress to get him to the point.
Speaker C:And so it does a very good job.
Speaker C:My opinion of something that a lot of movies don't, which is earning the ending.
Speaker C:You get a lot of like, oh, this is.
Speaker C:This would be a great ending.
Speaker C:And they almost work backwards and they don't care about any way to get there.
Speaker C:You get these jumps that are jarring.
Speaker C:It feels weird.
Speaker C:This I understand, like, immensely the amount of pressure he's under, the stress.
Speaker C:And every single person in the, you know, Cleveland Browns organization could have made it easier on him.
Speaker C:They just didn't.
Speaker C:Like, even down to Ralph, you know, do you want to know who sent the money back?
Speaker C:Every little bit of body language that Kevin Costner is putting out is do not ask that question.
Speaker C:And here's Ralph security guy.
Speaker C:It's taken 45 minutes to tell him anything.
Speaker C:And it's just the.
Speaker C:The fact that.
Speaker C:That all that stresses bottles up.
Speaker C:It's all these little storylines that happen on the side I love.
Speaker C:And it makes it a better watch me.
Speaker C:So I'll give it three and a half.
Speaker C:I don't know if I'll watch it again.
Speaker C:I mean, I won't have a problem watching it again, but I don't think I'll go seek it out.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker A:I love.
Speaker A:I love too.
Speaker A:In that moment at the end when he puts his little.
Speaker A:His finger up and he's like.
Speaker A:Gets a eating grin because he knows he's one comes back.
Speaker A:Love this job.
Speaker A:Like, it's.
Speaker A:It is a great ending to your point.
Speaker A:All right, well, there it is.
Speaker A:Draft Day.
Speaker A:What a fun sleeper movie.
Speaker A:I highly recommend it.
Speaker A:If you haven't seen it, go watch it once.
Speaker A:See what you think.
Speaker A:Because obviously it to get.
Speaker A:I'm shocked.
Speaker A:I love that Alec enjoyed it because I thought Alex was good.
Speaker B:That's shocking.
Speaker C:We're gonna fight later.
Speaker A:Don't worry.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, that's fair.
Speaker A:That's fair.
Speaker A:We'll fight down the road and you'll break my heart.
Speaker A:But this one made up for it a little bit.
Speaker A:So tell everybody where they can find us, Alec.
Speaker C:Happy to.
Speaker C:This is week two of our Kevin Costner sports films kicking off.
Speaker C:March strong so far.
Speaker C:A couple great films.
Speaker C:Special thanks and shout out to our patrons, Rich and CB for selecting the movies within this topic.
Speaker C:Got a great lineup coming for you.
Speaker C:Guys the remainder of the month.
Speaker C:But yeah, what you guys think of drafting?
Speaker C:Do you guys agree with us?
Speaker C:Are you big sports fans like JJ and Matson and really get into it for the that experience?
Speaker C:Are you more like me and just kind of tuned in to go see a great movie?
Speaker C:Let us know in the comments below.
Speaker C:And with that, I'll kick it back to our very own fearless leader, the King of Crash, The Maharaja of Mash.
Speaker A:J.J.
Speaker A:yeah.
Speaker A:Thanks, Alec.
Speaker A:Sweet.
Speaker A:That was fun.
Speaker A:Good times.
Speaker A:Looking forward to the next few.
Speaker A:We got some interesting movies coming up.
Speaker A:Should be some interesting discussions, but as always, we appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker A:We'll catch you on the next one.
Speaker A:Wait.
Speaker A:Hasta la vista, baby.
Speaker A:Cinematic la.
