Saving Private Ryan (1998) vs The Thin Red Line (1998)
Alec, Mattson and JJ delve into the nuanced comparison between two cinematic masterpieces: "Saving Private Ryan" and "The Thin Red Line." We engage in a rigorous examination of their respective portrayals of war, narrative structures, and character developments. Our discourse highlights the contrasting approaches each film takes to depict the harrowing realities and moral complexities of warfare. We explore how "Saving Private Ryan" is lauded for its visceral opening scenes and intense realism, while "The Thin Red Line" offers a more introspective exploration of individual soldiers' psyches amidst chaos. Ultimately, we aim to uncover the deeper philosophical reflections these films provoke regarding heroism, sacrifice, and the nature of conflict itself.
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Transcript
What a way.
Speaker A:What a way to use Jared Leto.
Speaker A:Get him plugged.
Speaker A:First five minutes of the fighting, you know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, because he sticks his head up too far.
Speaker A:Welcome to the what's up eric podcast.
Speaker A:We fashion ourselves cinematic judge and jury.
Speaker A:My name is J.J.
Speaker A:crowder.
Speaker A:I'm here with my co hosts Matt.
Speaker B:Zenider, better red than dead and Alec burgess.
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Speaker A:We are neck deep in week four, the final week of our month.
Speaker A:Great choice.
Speaker A:I was always obsessed with that song when I was a kid.
Speaker A:Come to find out, it's really not a great song, but God damn, is it catchy.
Speaker A:But yeah, let's.
Speaker A:Let's jump into the final week of our arbitration month where we compare similar movies, twin movies, however you want to decide on them.
Speaker A:But yeah, we're in the final week and we're.
Speaker A:We're.
Speaker A:We're going big and we're.
Speaker A:We're going home at this point.
Speaker A:So let's look at it.
Speaker A:Those watching, you'll get to see this.
Speaker A:Those listening, brace your ears because we're about to get some music.
Speaker A:But here we go.
Speaker B:Yeah, some serious bass.
Speaker A:Serious bass.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:I'm sad.
Speaker A:It's kind of our last one until we decide to do arbitrations again.
Speaker A:But yeah, we're doing Saving Private Ryan versus the Thin Red Line.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:It was written by Robert rodat.
Speaker A:It was directed by Steven spielberg.
Speaker A:Stars tom hanks, Matt damon, Tom sizemore, Edward burns, Barry pepper, Adam goldberg, Vin diesel, giovanna rabisi, Jeremy davies and Paul giamatti.
Speaker A:It was about following the normandy landings.
Speaker A:A group of u.
Speaker A:S.
Speaker A:Soldiers go behind enemy lines to retrieve a paratrooper whose brothers have been killed in action.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:It star was sorry, written by james jones and terence malik.
Speaker A:It was directed by terence malik.
Speaker A:Stars jim caviezel, Sean penn, Nick nolte, Kirk acevedo, Penelope allen, Benjamin green, Mark Boone Jr.
Speaker A:Simon Billig, Adrian brody, I could keep on going and george clooney.
Speaker A:We'll stop there for the sake of time and effort.
Speaker A:But the cast continues.
Speaker A: ames Jones's autobiographical: Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So they're released very close.
Speaker A:They're considered twin movies.
Speaker A:Technically.
Speaker A: in Red Line didn't release in: Speaker A:98 in a limited release and went wide in January of 99.
Speaker A:Yeah, these were my picks, so I'll kick us out.
Speaker A:Look, these are two.
Speaker A:There was a time, and I still have some obsession.
Speaker A:I don't know if I call it obsession, but a fascination with the wars of our history, like specifically the Civil War.
Speaker A:But World War II is a close second, just because the massive scale and the different venues and the, you know, the theaters that we were in when it came to, you know, the.
Speaker A:To World War II.
Speaker A:So, man, these movies are really weird, and I'm gonna have some hot takes throughout this, I think.
Speaker A:But Saving Private Ryan is one of Casey's favorite movies, and she wants to watch it all the time.
Speaker A:And I love it.
Speaker A:It's great.
Speaker A:There's a lot of great things about Saving Private Ryan, but Thin Red Line was one of those sleeper movies for me that I watched simply because it was about a war, and it was always undershadowed by.
Speaker A:Or overshadow.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:By Saving Private Ryan.
Speaker A:And so when I watched it, I was like, holy, this is insanely good.
Speaker A:And very different from Saving Private Ryan, obviously.
Speaker A:But, you know, it's still a war movie, and there's still a lot to be said about it.
Speaker A:I think the.
Speaker A:The big part for me, the part that I am interested to talk a little bit about that I'll mention here, and I'm sure we'll get into it as we go through our topics that Matt will tell us about here in a minute.
Speaker A:But I think the biggest thing for me is Saving Private Ryan is so focused on a group of soldiers trying to save one soldier.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so you get to know this group and the individuals that are led by Tom Hanks's character.
Speaker A:And then Thin Red Line is more.
Speaker A:There's a lot of group, but it's more about some individuals and how they're adapting to the war and dealing with their position within that war.
Speaker A:And I really like how it displays that and how it's different.
Speaker A:I will say that it does make for a slower feeling movie.
Speaker A:Neither of these movies are short, so you're.
Speaker A:You're in for a long haul, whichever one you choose.
Speaker A:So I don't recommend a back to back these sons of.
Speaker A:But I do recommend watching both of them.
Speaker A:So I'll kick that off that way, and then I'll turn it to you guys.
Speaker A:What you guys thought.
Speaker A:Before we jump right into topics and comparing them.
Speaker C:I'll go.
Speaker C:It was interesting because I'd never seen the Thin Red Line before this.
Speaker C:And I liked the fact that Saving Private Ryan is almost a very romanticized telling of the story.
Speaker C:And I feel like a lot of the war in Europe is a very romanticized storytelling.
Speaker C:And the Pacific theater is the exact opposite.
Speaker C:And I think this movie, well, they both do a good job of, like, telling the theater they're in.
Speaker C:And it's such a stark contrast.
Speaker A:What'S.
Speaker C:Going on and what's happening to the soldiers who are, you know, participating in this.
Speaker C:And so it was a.
Speaker C:It was a hard watch because I did watch them back to back.
Speaker C:And I did the Thin Red Line first because I knew if I knew if I died from boredom, I would be able to cover it with Saving Private Ryan because I've seen the movie several times.
Speaker B:Yeah, you get that 15 minute pick me up at the beginning of Private Ryan.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that's six hours of pain right there.
Speaker C:It was.
Speaker C:It was a lot.
Speaker C:But I mean, it was.
Speaker C:It was also nice because it.
Speaker C:Every time I kind of watch the.
Speaker C:Any kind of war movie, especially World War II, I, like, go on this binge.
Speaker C:And so now I'm halfway through Band of Brothers.
Speaker A:Oh, I love Band of Brothers.
Speaker B:Band of Brothers, man, what a.
Speaker C:So it was like, it was nice to go back and revisit it because I don't do it super frequently.
Speaker B:Band of Brothers is the only other thing that I would say is comparable to Saving Private Ryan.
Speaker B:That scene when they're in the town and that guy gets like an RPG that goes to the window and he comes out with, like, his bloody stump and the glass shards.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:Well, quick side note, so thanks, Alec.
Speaker A:But yeah, like, the Band of Brothers would not have been made if it weren't for the success of Saving Private Ryan because it's the same production team that did it.
Speaker A:And really, Saving Private Ryan was supposed to be more Band of Brothers.
Speaker A:Ish.
Speaker A:But you can't make 50 hour movie.
Speaker A:So they took it.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, they tried, but yeah, without one.
Speaker A:I mean, that's.
Speaker A:Tom Hanks was a huge producer of Band of Brothers and so Spielberg's great.
Speaker B:I, like, Alec, hadn't seen Thin Red Line, which is a little surprising because I've seen a fair bit of war movies.
Speaker B:Like, I mean, people know.
Speaker B:I like.
Speaker B:I like movies like that.
Speaker B:Into Alex Point.
Speaker B:I totally agree.
Speaker B:I mean, the European theater absolutely was romanticized.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:I'm trying to think of a movie either that we reviewed on this podcast.
Speaker B:It was the one that I'm.
Speaker B:I wish I can remember what I was thinking of.
Speaker B:It's the movie I thought the Thin Red Line was of like, oh, I've seen this before.
Speaker B:I don't remember what's kind of to look it up.
Speaker B:But there was a stigma of people that were fighting in the Japanese theater.
Speaker B:Like it just wasn't as like respected or kind of talked about as much as well, soldiers kind of felt like it just went on the same even footing.
Speaker B:So I thought that was interesting.
Speaker B:But a Thin Red Line, like gut reaction.
Speaker B:Oh my gosh, dude, it was slow.
Speaker B:It was so unbearably slow I had to break it up into chunks.
Speaker B:But as we'll talk about as I texted Jay, the emotion in the realism, like in what's funny is Save a Private Ryan is very realistic.
Speaker B:I mean it's complimented on being one of the most realistic war films in filmmaking.
Speaker B:But the emotional realism of A Thin Red Line is what I think will stick with me.
Speaker B:Like there was, we'll talk about some things that were portrayed that really made war feel like war and the burdens of it, not just like the actual fighting, but the personal implications of people's lives and what was happening.
Speaker B:And I thought they did an amazing job.
Speaker B:And most of that was portrayed and came up because of the pace of the movie.
Speaker B:So it's kind of a double edged sword because I don't think you could have had that land as well as well as it did emotionally, unless the pace was a little slower.
Speaker B:But at times, my goodness, it did feel who it did feel some type of brutal.
Speaker B:And then you've got Saving Private Ryan that has like the best 15 to 20 minute opening of a movie.
Speaker B:It's right there for the best opening of a movie that I can think of.
Speaker B:I mean in terms of a war movie, I don't know if there's a better like start to maybe like it's from the camera angles to the, the sound to the just the gravity of the situation.
Speaker B:If you care about history, like, I mean it puts, it's like you're there, you're in the, the land amphibious vehicle and you've gotten out.
Speaker B:Then you're just like, oh shiz this is happening right now.
Speaker B:Like this is going down.
Speaker B:And the reason that movie sticks out so much to me is I had a chance to go to Normandy and I watched this movie like two days before I got on a plane and walking around, there's still bunkers there.
Speaker B:Seeing all the, the massive rows of the crosses at the grave sites, like the, the hill that went down, it really put the, like the scene in question and just helped you understand like dude, they work on a shooting fish in a barrel and it is kind of a miracle that it worked out the way it did.
Speaker B:Thank goodness for diversion.
Speaker B:Otherwise if they had known we were coming, I don't think it would have worked.
Speaker B:But then from, from that point the movie kind of is like a slow downward decline of interest for me.
Speaker B:There's still pockets of scenes that I very much enjoy.
Speaker B:But it starts so fast and so great and it's so compelling and then it just kind of like lulls off a little bit.
Speaker B:So that's my gut thoughts.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:All right, what are our topics here, Matson?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, right.
Speaker B:Well, let's.
Speaker B:We're going to talk about cinematic techniques and visual style.
Speaker B:We're going to talk about narrative structure and pacing, portrayal of war and its impact and philosophical and ethical reflections.
Speaker B:Point number four is going to be a hot and heavy one for this film.
Speaker C:But we'll get my dictionary out to look up half.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:So let's talk about the cinematography and like visual style.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:I mean it's kind of a.
Speaker A:That's a stark trend comparison because they're very different and yet there's some similarities.
Speaker A:I think once you get past the opening scene that you're talking about in Saving Private Ryan.
Speaker A:Because that one, like the cinematography makes me.
Speaker A:I have to be careful because it does kind of make me nauseous.
Speaker A:Especially like on my huge television.
Speaker A:Like I get watching it and like the fact that they're so close to the ground in a lot of cases and like it has a lot of the.
Speaker A:They Spielberg did a lot of weird with some of the contraptions that they used, the machines they used to film that because he wanted it to feel like you're storming with them.
Speaker A:The move, the motion gets me a little.
Speaker A:It's almost like not quite found camera but similar vibe to it to where you kind of feel a lot of the movements in a different way.
Speaker B:So you don't like it?
Speaker A:I don't dislike it and I appreciate why he did it and the visuals that it creates.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:But I have to like watch it kind of side eyed because otherwise like I love it.
Speaker A:I get most.
Speaker A:I've.
Speaker B:I've never seen it when, when I first I was like, I've never experienced anything quite like this.
Speaker B:I felt like I was getting off the boat for real.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's what he was aiming to do.
Speaker A:And so when it came to that, he was very successful.
Speaker A:But I will say that it did make me, like, still to this day, like, I can't watch it.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I will say that one mistake that I feel like was made with that movie.
Speaker A:And again, I understand why, because you can't film the whole thing like that because nobody's gonna watch a movie.
Speaker A:But every time there was fighting, I feel like that transition away.
Speaker A:And even if you hadn't done it in like.
Speaker A:Like that middle fight where they capture the dude and like the whole.
Speaker A:Which I'm sure we'll talk about with philosophical.
Speaker A:But, like, that whole scene, they didn't.
Speaker A:And then they didn't.
Speaker A:But then I think the final fight, like, they should have done it some, right?
Speaker A:Like, because again, we're back to this ground level and I.
Speaker A:So I wanted to see a little bit more of it.
Speaker A:It would have been a nice mirror from start to finish.
Speaker A:So I really like it.
Speaker A:But to your point, it almost feels like once that first 15 minutes is over, it's almost like you're watching a whole different movie.
Speaker A:And so it's.
Speaker A:That is a little jerky.
Speaker A:And it's my.
Speaker A:One of my only complaints about this movie is that transition from that opening scene.
Speaker A:That's crazy and puts you in a really weird place visually and, like, on the ground.
Speaker A:But then it transitions away from that and it just becomes another war movie to me.
Speaker A:So that's one of my issues, I think, with Thin Red Line, though.
Speaker A:Like, what I like about it is the.
Speaker A:And I said this in my intro, like, the individualistic nature of a lot of it, which we'll talk about in the.
Speaker A:The, you know, pacing and things like that.
Speaker A:But, like, I like that.
Speaker A:I feel like I'm connecting and I'm getting these different perspectives in war based on these individuals that it's tracking.
Speaker A:And I love the fact that we start with a deserter.
Speaker A:Like, you know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, to me, like, you're like, oh, what's this guy doing on this island?
Speaker A:Oh, look, the soldier's help, people.
Speaker A:And, oh, he's.
Speaker A:He's deserted.
Speaker A:And now they're pulling his ass right back into it.
Speaker A:Like, which I find interesting too.
Speaker A:But we'll get into that with philosophicals as well.
Speaker A:I'll wait for that topic.
Speaker A:But yeah, so interesting for me, I.
Speaker A:I think they're similar enough, which was nice because of the.
Speaker A:The fact that they're both World War II movies.
Speaker A:But, yeah, there's mine.
Speaker B:I'll go, I mean, if we're, if we're going one over the other, I still think Saving Private Ryan takes the cake.
Speaker B:It was, it was so much more innovative.
Speaker B:I mean, I, I read stuff.
Speaker B:I know, like, veterans have literally said it's as close to sounding like it sounded to looking like it looked, feeling like it felt.
Speaker B:And that's the highest compliment that you can get.
Speaker B:Whereas then Red Line, there's nothing wrong with it, but it, it felt like a, just another war movie that was filmed and they did a good job.
Speaker B:But there wasn't anything that I felt was different than any other war movie that I had seen before.
Speaker B:Saving Private Ride.
Speaker B:To this day, like, sometimes I'll just watch the first 20 minutes and then I'll just stop because it's incredible.
Speaker B:Like, I, I, I'm trying to think of a war, a modern war movie since that has put me in that type of situation where I really feel like I'm a part of it.
Speaker B:I can't think of anything off the top of my head.
Speaker B:Maybe I should be able to, but I can't.
Speaker B:So I just think, I mean, Save a Private Ryan.
Speaker B:It's the thing, like I sometimes just want to watch and crank my sound system up and that's the same thing.
Speaker B:It's funny we bring up Band of Brothers because the same people that made it.
Speaker B:That's thing that, those are honestly two of the films that made me.
Speaker B:I prefer sound over, over, like exceptional picture quality always.
Speaker B:Like, I, when you can hear the, it's like all coming around, like, oh man, it takes me places.
Speaker B:And yeah, I just think it to me, Kate goes to Saving Private Ryan for sure.
Speaker A:It's fair.
Speaker C:It's an interesting choice because if we're looking at the beginnings of both films, you cannot have two more different beginnings.
Speaker C:One is Stormy Normandy in the Machine Gun Fire.
Speaker C:The other just some dude in a canoe in the South Pacific.
Speaker C:But I like, I like both of them.
Speaker C:It makes sense for what they're doing.
Speaker C:And so having this, like you were talking about, JD this individualistic view of pretty much what it's like to be a soldier, right?
Speaker C:And not necessarily the, the ooh ra type of like, but it's the, the real human nature of being a soldier during wartime.
Speaker C:And then on the other side, you have this dude, let's fucking go, right?
Speaker C:And you're, you're, you're there and you're a part of it.
Speaker C:And so it's, it almost feels like it goes either way based on what you are in the mood for.
Speaker C:Or what you're feeling.
Speaker C:I mean, the fact that the Thin Red Line is.
Speaker C:Didn't really do anything too outrageous or new or risky.
Speaker C:We'll say I'm giving the point to Saving Private Ryan because nobody in film school is like, here's what you do to make a good movie.
Speaker C:You're gonna take your camera and you're gonna do everything except hold it steady.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's never in film school.
Speaker C:And so the fact that Steven Spielberg's like, you know what we're gonna do?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:We're gonna break every single rule in the book and it works is very, very cool.
Speaker C:So, yeah, I'll give it to Saving Private Ryan on that one.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't think you'll see it again the way that.
Speaker A:And I say that for a couple reasons, but because of what you're talking about, Matson, like, the fact that there have been a lot of soldiers, veterans that have said, this is as close to watching, like, being in wars, you can get.
Speaker A:Like, you almost lose a whole demographic because there's a lot of people that have walked out of the film due to PTSD issues and the fact that it.
Speaker A:What did sound and feel so similar that they couldn't like it brought up and so they couldn't watch it.
Speaker A:So you almost lose a whole demographic of viewers.
Speaker A:And I hate to put it in a business sense, but it's true.
Speaker A:And I don't think.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:I don't think you'll ever see that tactic used in this kind of a war film again, because you're.
Speaker A:You're encouraging your veteran audience to not watch it at all.
Speaker A:Which I think most war movies, they probably.
Speaker A:It's not like I don't have a few friends that are vets, and I.
Speaker A:It's not like they're like, yeah, let's go watch a war movie.
Speaker A:Like, that's the last thing they want to watch.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, it's like my wife, as a therapist, the last thing she wants to watch is some, like, drama about the stuff she cancels every day.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, let's not do that.
Speaker B:Something happy.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right, narrative structure and pacing.
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker B:Who's going first on this one?
Speaker A:You go first.
Speaker A:You seem to have it all figured out.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I really don't.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:This one's hard for me because, like I said, I mean, the easy answer for me is Saving Private Brian, just because it's much more of a linear story and, like, a progression that I think it has a more defined beginning and end.
Speaker B:To an extent where A Thin Red Line is much more complex than the narratives that are interwoven between moments in the movie that are shown.
Speaker B:Man.
Speaker B:I think, like, when I think about how they structured A Thin Red Line, I like a lot of the individual stories, but then sometimes it's.
Speaker B:At least.
Speaker B:It left me at times questioning where we were going with this and what they wanted me to take away from it.
Speaker B:At times, because it was so slower, I wanted it to play out a little bit faster.
Speaker B:Where Saving Private Ryan, it was clear what was going on, what was happening, and what needed to be done.
Speaker B:But at times I was less compelled on, like, how they were getting it done.
Speaker B:Pacing is.
Speaker B:Let's just call it what it is.
Speaker B:It's rough for both of them.
Speaker B:If I had to give a pacing grade for both, I'd probably give them, like, close to an F, maybe.
Speaker B:Thin Red Line probably would lose a little bit more just because, oh, my gosh, dude, I've never looked at my watch so many times.
Speaker B:I don't even wear a watch.
Speaker B:But, like, which one do I prefer more?
Speaker B:I like the narrative of A Thin Red Line a little bit more.
Speaker B:I liked the different stories and how it culminated into the message that they were trying to give at the end about war isn't glamorous.
Speaker B:It's tough.
Speaker B:And it's tough for all these different reasons.
Speaker B:And you kind of have to make it what it is for you to find sanity.
Speaker B:Where Saving Private Ryan, the narrative structure is more so just like, look, we have this mission, we have this goal.
Speaker B:We need to get it done.
Speaker B:There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker B:But I think I enjoyed the individual narratives of A Thin Red Line a little bit more.
Speaker B:But the pacing of Saving Private Ryan Wallet sucked.
Speaker B:It sucked far less than Thin Red Line.
Speaker A:Fair enough.
Speaker A:What about you, Alec?
Speaker C:See, now, similar to Matson, it's rough because aside from the opening with Saving Private Ryan, the remainder of the film is, like, at best, mediocre in terms of narrative and pacing.
Speaker C:And it's unfortunate that it comes after the best part of the movie because, like, I was the first town that they go through where they, like, meet Paul Giamatti.
Speaker C:Like, at that point, you.
Speaker C:It almost feels like that's where the movie should have started.
Speaker C:And then you realize that you're in for the whole rest of the movie because it just drops off.
Speaker C:And so now you almost have to reset yourself, regather, refocus, as you're now absorbing a whole new narrative, which is way different than the start.
Speaker C:And what you're kind of led to expect or believe.
Speaker C:And that is much trickier for me to deal with than it is with something like Thin Red Line where it stays pretty consistent in the fact that it has no consistency and you're going back and forth and you're jumping between narratives.
Speaker C:And so I'm gonna give it to the thinner line as well for that one.
Speaker A:Yeah, this one's an easy choice for me with Thin Red Line winning this one.
Speaker A:And I think Saving Private Ryan does two things that I think make me struggle with its narrative.
Speaker A:One is to kind of what Alec was talking about and even what we've mentioned.
Speaker A:The first 20 minutes are like I remember seeing this in the theater going as a 17 year old kid going what the fuck did I just watch?
Speaker A:Like this was crazy.
Speaker A:And then I have to go wait, there's still a movie going on, right?
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:And then you have to reset your brain to go okay, now I gotta watch this movie about the most.
Speaker A:The ultimate plot MacGuffin ever.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And so it's like to me it's wild how good.
Speaker A:I mean it's great movie and I love it.
Speaker A:And we'll score.
Speaker A:I'm gonna score really high.
Speaker A:But the problem is it again is based on this wild plot McGuffin that has foundations in truth.
Speaker A:Like there's a couple of stories that you.
Speaker A:The Nyland brothers in is the one that it's most loosely betrayed or portrayed about.
Speaker A:But there was another family, the Sullivan family.
Speaker A:Like if you've never heard of that one, that's one you should because.
Speaker A:And they didn't tell that one or lucid on that because they were on the Sullivan were on a warship in the South Pacific and so they were in the Pacific theater.
Speaker A:Harder to tell that story.
Speaker A:Not nearly as easy to make it end well.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Or I shouldn't say end well because let's say.
Speaker A:Let's be honest paving PR doesn't end well.
Speaker A:It ends as well as it can.
Speaker A:That doesn't happen.
Speaker A:None of the Sullivans come home in, you know, from South Pacific.
Speaker A:So it's one of those things.
Speaker A:There's a great song by a very obscure band called Caroline Spine if you ever want to hear about the Sullivans.
Speaker A:So very interesting.
Speaker A:Anyway the.
Speaker A:But with Thin Red lion like narratively the character development of each of these and then on top of it like the little sub characters that you see too that you get full on development.
Speaker A:There's a reason saving private Ryan's three hours.
Speaker A:It's because we have 20 minutes before the movie Ever starts and then the movie starts.
Speaker A:And so now you're at a two hour and 20 minute movie.
Speaker A:That's normal.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Thin Red Line is three hours because it has to be to tell all the stories in a way that gives you meaningful character development and actually pays off the stories that we're getting involved in.
Speaker A:And it actually has a start to finish with those.
Speaker A:So it's two very different.
Speaker A:I think comparing and contrasting this is the biggest difference between those two movies is the storytelling and the narrative.
Speaker A:And so I.
Speaker A:Well, I love Saving Private Ryan.
Speaker A:I think din Red Line takes this one hands down because of the different perspectives that it gives.
Speaker A:And then the.
Speaker A:I mean, you could even.
Speaker A:I guess you could call it a redemption arc, even though it's not really.
Speaker A:I mean, it's just interesting to watch those.
Speaker A:So this one.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely Thin Red line on that one for me.
Speaker B:Okay, well, we're gonna.
Speaker B:Number three is portrayal of war and realism.
Speaker B:We've talked a little bit about the realism already in our first topic, but I want to talk about the.
Speaker B:The actual portrayal of war between the two in.
Speaker B:In how we think which film, like, did it better, did it worse?
Speaker A:I'm gonna.
Speaker B:When I say portrayal of war, like, we'll talk about like the weighty implication, like more like the, I don't know, the mental, physical side of it, if that makes sense.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think there's a lot.
Speaker A:I think the physic, the.
Speaker A:What was it?
Speaker A:The philosophical discussion will probably be the biggest.
Speaker B:Yeah, we'll get there on that.
Speaker A:It's across the board on that.
Speaker A:But I think from like an actual portrayal of the act of war.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like the fighting and things like that, like this one's, I think the most difficult for me to compare the two.
Speaker A:And I think, and I say that if you take out the first 20 minutes of saving Private Ryan, and I think the thing that'll put this over the edge for Saving Private Ryan, for me at least, is that first 20 minutes because of the realistic nature of that opening.
Speaker A:But I want to set that aside because we've already talked about it.
Speaker A:But from after you get past that with both movies, like, I think they're so close in that they're.
Speaker A:It's very real.
Speaker A:Like, you open this Thin Red line after you get past the introduction, like overtime, and we get into actual fighting.
Speaker A:Dude, what a way.
Speaker A:What a way to use Jared Leto getting plugged first five minutes of the fight.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, because he sticks his head up too far and he's waiting.
Speaker A:So it's and then the fear that you see in both, like, of these soldiers that do extraordinary things in a very extraordinary situation on either side of good, bad, indifferent, however you want to look at it.
Speaker A:But I think, like, the actual seeing of your friends and, like, the death and the toll that it takes, like.
Speaker A:And they don't shy away in the violence in either one of these.
Speaker A:I think ultimately I'm gonna give it to Saving Private Ryan.
Speaker A:But I think if we're talking about categories being close, I think this one and the last one that we'll talk about are as close as it can get because they both do a great job of the weight of war and the violence, and they don't shy away from it to the point that, man, it's brutal.
Speaker A:Limbs lost in both, like, explosions, and you're just like, holy.
Speaker A:This is traumatic and crazy.
Speaker A:And I am grateful as much as I can say that about having problems that led me to not be able to join the military.
Speaker A:And I appreciate our.
Speaker A:I've said this many times.
Speaker A:I say all the time, I appreciate our veterans, but Ike wouldn't have lasted in war.
Speaker A:I just wouldn't have.
Speaker A:Like, I'm not built for that, so.
Speaker A:And watching and the fact that a movie.
Speaker A:I can't even imagine that in real life, like, it's wild.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna give it the same Private Ryan, but it's because of that opening scene.
Speaker A:But I think outside of that, they're both really close.
Speaker A:Like, you take that away, and I'd have a hard time picking between the.
Speaker A:What about you, Matson?
Speaker B:I mean, like you said, easy one to give it to.
Speaker B:Is SVP or spv Saving Private, right?
Speaker B:No, spr.
Speaker B:Jeez.
Speaker B:Spp.
Speaker B:I was thinking of esp.
Speaker A:That's a hell of a journey there.
Speaker B:Just having it.
Speaker B:Like, I talked about being at Normandy and seeing it and seeing all the scenes that they included.
Speaker B:Like, I.
Speaker B:When I was walking, I was like, man, I feel like I'm literally.
Speaker B:I mean, I wasn't looking at the exact stretch of beach, but sure as felt like it was just so cool to see that in those 20 minutes.
Speaker B:But I think moving past that for both movies after, it's splitting hairs after that, as Jay talked about, I think with a thin red line, I.
Speaker B:You got to see more of the mistakes and individual fear and trepidation and also the push for glory, like the bloodlust, the.
Speaker B:The ptsd, the personal agendas of.
Speaker B:Of doing right by your soldiers.
Speaker B:And I guess that was seen by both.
Speaker B:But I think I like the individual Portrayals in the Thin Red Line a little bit more.
Speaker B:But I think Saving Private Ryan, like, showed what a true combat unit is.
Speaker B:Like the brotherhood and the camaraderie that is developed.
Speaker B:I appreciated that.
Speaker B:I think I'd go Saving Private Ryan, like, barely.
Speaker B:But really the kicker is the opening 20 minutes.
Speaker B:Like, again, sometimes I just watch it because it was that good.
Speaker A:Swear.
Speaker A:All right, Alec, this is going to.
Speaker C:Be the hardest one, because for me, they did such a good job of once again portraying the theater they were in at the European theater.
Speaker C:Seen as kind of the civilized.
Speaker C:More civilized, where you're.
Speaker C:You're looking at the guy that's trying to kill you in a way.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:There's a machine gun, you know, nest on a hill with no trees around it.
Speaker C:Yeah, okay.
Speaker C:Versus Thin Red Line.
Speaker C:You have that.
Speaker C:That scene, like, with the tall grass.
Speaker C:Oh, right.
Speaker C:And so a lot of the Pacific is.
Speaker C:You.
Speaker C:You thought you, you know, were fighting 100 guys on the other side, and it might have been two dudes with the, you know, with the bolt action rifle.
Speaker C:Like, you just did not know because you couldn't see them.
Speaker C:And so you have this.
Speaker C:This fear that I think is portrayed really well where, you know, got a guy who's like, dude, I.
Speaker C:I got one.
Speaker C:I got one.
Speaker C:Boom.
Speaker C:Up dead.
Speaker C:And so it's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's almost played a little bit for a laugh, but at the same time, it's like, that's.
Speaker C:That's what the Pacific was like.
Speaker C:You're dropped off on an island.
Speaker C:There's.
Speaker C:It's guerrilla warfare.
Speaker C:Six Japanese soldiers versus, you know, entire company.
Speaker C:And that's almost like the.
Speaker C:Dude, we lost 40 guys, and we don't even know how many we got because we can't find them.
Speaker C:And so it's a tricky one because it's.
Speaker C:It's again, two different theaters, but I think what it's going to come down to, similar to you guys, is that opening scene for Saving Private Ryan just almost takes away or, you know, covers up any kind of the.
Speaker C:The plot.
Speaker C:McGuffins.
Speaker C:And the conveniences of, oh, hey, there just happens to be one solid good bell tower for our sniper to sit up and all this good stuff.
Speaker C:And so it's.
Speaker C:It's going to go to Sabre for that one for me, but it is very close.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's a tough one.
Speaker A:And to your point, like, I don't know, like.
Speaker A:Well, I'll save that for the last topic.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right, what's next, Madsen?
Speaker B:I think this one be relatively.
Speaker B:I mean, A little bit quicker.
Speaker B:Jace talked about this a little bit, so we'll make you go first and expound character development and ensemble cast.
Speaker A:So Wolfty.
Speaker A:Okay, let's just go ahead and say that Thin Red Line may have one of the greatest casts, cast lists in movie history.
Speaker A:And it's interesting from a movie that a lot of times neither of you had seen it.
Speaker A:And I talk about it and people like, I don't know that I've ever heard about that movie, and I'm like, oh.
Speaker A:And so I'm not shocked by that anymore.
Speaker A:But like, like I said, if you haven't seen it and you're listening to this, watching this, go watch it because it's worth the watch.
Speaker A:And the cast is outrageous.
Speaker A:There's gotta be 30 plus Oscars wrapped up in just the cast alone of that movie.
Speaker A:And, and, and you.
Speaker A:There's a whole list.
Speaker A:Like, if you go down IMDb they always have the cast list.
Speaker A:And you get to the bottom, if you look at the full cast, there's like the uncredited cast.
Speaker A:Dude, even the uncredited cast is ridiculous.
Speaker A:Like, it's stupid.
Speaker A:Some of the names that are in this.
Speaker A:And so from a.
Speaker A:A cast perspective, it doesn't get any better than did Red Line.
Speaker A:But if there's a competitor, the one that's trying, it's sure going to be Saving Private Ryan because you get a lot just like Thin Red Line, a lot of short, brief cameos of these major actors that you're like, oh, you know, and some of.
Speaker A:I think there's a couple of crossovers, if I remember right.
Speaker A:Like they're in both movies as higher arch.
Speaker A:I'd have to look at it again, but I think my first thing goes to the guy from Cheers.
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:I can't think of his name, but I think he's in both.
Speaker A:Anyway, my issue when it comes to this is like the.
Speaker A:And I'm gonna give this particular topic to Thin Red Line because I think Saving Private Ryan, the ensemble cast, and the ensemble nature of the cast to me, takes away from the ability for me to be.
Speaker A:I could get attached.
Speaker A:Everybody loves the Captain, right?
Speaker A:Because it's Tom Hanks and he's amazing and he plays this character as good as he's played ever, anything.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And then you have a couple of other characters that within the, you know, this little group that you might get attached to one way or another.
Speaker A:Like I love Giovanna Grabisi's character and you know, and so it's really rough when he goes and.
Speaker A:But then Thin Red Line is so good, because to me, from.
Speaker A:Each cast has its place, and each main character is the focus.
Speaker A:And then it's how these cameos come in and impact that individual character that were, in their point of view, if you will.
Speaker A:Whereas with Saving Private Ryan, there's all these little cameos, but it's for one reason, to get them closer to the plot.
Speaker A:MacGuffin.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, they.
Speaker A:They're finding a way to get to talk to soldiers or have a conversation when they're sleeping or whatever it might be.
Speaker A:It plays towards moving them forward.
Speaker A:But the thin red line, those cameos are almost always strategic in order to show the impact that they had on this person that we're watching, whether it's inspired them or, you know, push them further away from wanting to be where they're at and doing what they're doing.
Speaker A:And so I think that that's just such a clever use, and it's so smart to watch.
Speaker A:And I thoroughly enjoy watching that development of these individuals that we get their point of view and their perspectives and.
Speaker A:And then the turnarounds and the changes and the things that they do that are outside their character and the things that they do that fit right within that established monologue that we have from each of them.
Speaker A:Like, it's just so good to me that I get an insight of their.
Speaker A:Their mind and then how these characters and.
Speaker A:And the theater board that they're in and what they're doing evolves and helps them to move forward.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna give this one the theater headline.
Speaker A:But they both have just unbelievable casts, like, wild.
Speaker B:Look, dude, when you got Jared Leto die in, you got Woody Harrelson blowing up.
Speaker B:You got John Travolta on a boat, you've got Nick Noi losing his mind, then George Clooney, pretty boy giving a pep talk to these troops.
Speaker B:I'm like, dude, war is glamorous, obviously, jokes.
Speaker B:But I just.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:That was the one thing that kept me.
Speaker B:Got me out of my slumber of like.
Speaker B:Like, like, slowness.
Speaker B:Watching this.
Speaker B:I was like, they got another person.
Speaker B:I was like, is that who I think it is?
Speaker B:Like, he's in this movie, too.
Speaker B:Like, what the.
Speaker B:It's crazy for me.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I think I.
Speaker B:I go thin red line.
Speaker B:Even though the pace is slower.
Speaker B:Just the sheer amount of just.
Speaker B:I mean, if you.
Speaker B:If you got the guts to kill, like, I guess Jared Leto was kind of, like, up and coming at that point.
Speaker B:Or maybe more obscure, even, like, Woody Harrell.
Speaker B:I was like, you.
Speaker B:You must have a lot of good people in this movie, if you're willing to kill these people like this way and that fast.
Speaker B:And I didn't mind.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:I was more so just like, damn, he just died, Mike.
Speaker B:Whoa.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Somebody that's not a nobody.
Speaker A:Which I think too.
Speaker A:And you bring up a good point.
Speaker A:Not to interrupt you.
Speaker A:Sorry, but I think you triggered a great point in my head.
Speaker A:And that is it.
Speaker A:Also, they use them to show that nobody's safe in war, right?
Speaker A:Like, holy.
Speaker A:It's Woody hair.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker A:See?
Speaker A:Woody.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, nobody's safe.
Speaker B:I was just waiting for somebody else important to die.
Speaker B:I was like, someone else is gonna go down.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:But what takes the kid, and it's.
Speaker B:It's hard to say, is because I love Tom Hanks.
Speaker B:But what's funny about Saving Private Ryan, he's as good.
Speaker B:Like you said, he's as good as any Tom Hanks in any movie that I've seen.
Speaker B:But this isn't to me a Tom Hanks movie.
Speaker B:And it feels a little weird to say that, but that's.
Speaker B:I don't watch this movie because of him.
Speaker B:I watch it because of just the sheer cinematography.
Speaker B:Cinematography.
Speaker B:And he happens to be amazing.
Speaker B:I think when we get to 0.5 about the philosophical nature and the moral implications, that's where he crushes it.
Speaker B:We'll talk about that.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker B:But his.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:It's just like, I don't remember his performance as much of this movie as much as the cinematography.
Speaker B:And I think it.
Speaker B:Because it's so amazing, it's hard to overcome that.
Speaker B:But in a thin red light, there's a few performances.
Speaker B:And for me, the one that takes the cake is Nick Nolte's character.
Speaker B:Like, dude, he just.
Speaker B:His story.
Speaker B:Whenever he was on that, I.
Speaker B:I was locked in at any scene that.
Speaker B:That had me go.
Speaker B:Because I'll.
Speaker B:As we'll talk about at the end, there's a lot of some other sub story lines.
Speaker B:It was so long.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:Not every one of them landed for me.
Speaker B:And they won't.
Speaker B:I'm sure that not all of them landed for you because if they did, then power to you.
Speaker B:But not all of them worked.
Speaker B:But, man, his stuff.
Speaker B:And especially his monologue after they broke through the first time.
Speaker B:And then he's just berating that other.
Speaker B:Whatever, the captain or whatever.
Speaker B:And then after he's like, we could do this.
Speaker B:We can push through.
Speaker B:We got to wait.
Speaker B:He's like self talking and they're like yelling at other people and like spit flying and, you know, like, there were people like that literally in war that were going for the glory, that didn't get a chance to fight.
Speaker B:This is their moment.
Speaker B:They want to push through.
Speaker B:And they're like, we got.
Speaker B:But I'm like, yeah, you may think we got this, but you're saying we got this with, like, 3,000 soldiers that just went through hell.
Speaker B:And you may want this, but is it worth it?
Speaker B:Like, getting some sleep and getting some goddamn water up the mountain for, like, his stuff?
Speaker B:Dude, like, man, I mean, I've seen a lot of movies, but they could not have casted him better.
Speaker B:Like, he was losing his mind.
Speaker B:And then, like, the centrifuge, and he was trying to get that captain basically, like, pushed out.
Speaker B:And, man, I just.
Speaker B:Oh, that was awesome.
Speaker B:And then that captain or whatever that made that decision to not put his men in jeopardy, that really, honestly made me think of Saving Private Ryan, because Tom Hanks character does that quite a bit with his crew, and that kind of leads us in the 05 here.
Speaker B:Shortly before we do.
Speaker B:Nick Nolte's character.
Speaker B:Crushed it.
Speaker A:Agreed.
Speaker C:All right, Alec, this is the easiest one because I'm gonna focus on the character development part of that thing.
Speaker C:And in Saving Private Ryan, there really isn't any.
Speaker C:It kind of come as you are, you know, and there's no real opportunity for it as well, or it wouldn't make much sense.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:To have this character development takes away from the point of the story to begin with.
Speaker C:And so the characters come already prepackaged and put together, and this is.
Speaker C:This is what you're gonna get.
Speaker C:Thin red line.
Speaker C:You have that.
Speaker C:You know that there's changes you go through.
Speaker C:You're starting to see why we have people deserting and then also why they're dragging their asses back.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And so it's.
Speaker C:It's gonna be an easy thin red line for me for that one.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's good points.
Speaker A:All right, we on to the last one.
Speaker B:We are in probably the most complex in some senses, the philosophical and ethical reflections.
Speaker B:Alec, you would be up first for this one.
Speaker C:I figured it'd go something like this.
Speaker C:What is it?
Speaker C:Philosophical and ethical?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean.
Speaker B:Yeah, you just talk.
Speaker B:This is the weightiest thing about war, so there should be much to say.
Speaker C:So the.
Speaker C:There's.
Speaker C:There's a couple parts to Saving Private Ryan that I do not enjoy.
Speaker C:The most egregious is Jeremy Davies as Colonel Upham up them.
Speaker C:Hate that he gets added in.
Speaker C:And I do not see the point, because a lot of the philosophical or ethical you know, consequences we'll say are run through Corporal Upham.
Speaker C:And it makes no sense to me.
Speaker C:There's almost no reason for it.
Speaker C:And it as such an unlikable character just across the board.
Speaker C:I mean, it's, it's, it's such a awkward and weird choice for me because you have this, you know, you know, they're Army Rangers, right?
Speaker C:They're.
Speaker C:They're a Ranger squad.
Speaker C:These are the best of the best that are doing this and they pick up this dude.
Speaker C:And then a lot of what they are doing is based off of what Corporal Upham is being like their, you know, quote unquote moral voice, a stupid idea.
Speaker C:And so my biggest complaint with Saving Private Ryan is you almost undo a lot of that.
Speaker C:All the work that you put in by running these big kind of, you know, stories or situation or choices through such a dog character to try and make me feel like, oh, yeah, you know, during.
Speaker C:When you're in the firefight, like you freeze.
Speaker C:Like, there's people who freeze.
Speaker C:There's people who have this shell shock to come back.
Speaker C:You know, know PTSD or whatever it is.
Speaker C:And it's like you could have done that without running through Jeremy Davies.
Speaker C:And so you have the machine nest gunner that, you know, they, they all just want to pop.
Speaker C:Pretty sure he would have been popped.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Sorry.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:The war is hell.
Speaker C:So you're going to have these teams where there's nobody around.
Speaker C:It is much simpler.
Speaker C:Instead of letting the Vermont pick them back up again, pop him.
Speaker C:And so you're.
Speaker C:And then, you know, we see later he shows up at the bridge and corporal up him, gets his.
Speaker C:Gets his sweet revenge by popping them and letting everybody else go.
Speaker C:And it's a struggle for me on that point because you have this great kind of story going for you, you know, with the, we're gonna go find Ryan.
Speaker C:Oh, we can't find them, but we're gonna go, we lose guys, we lose guys, we lose guys.
Speaker C:But this is important.
Speaker C:This is the mission.
Speaker C:And you know, you have that great stuff and it's all undone by corporal up versus Thin red line.
Speaker C:You have this, I think Matson is brought up and you have as well, this kind of like secret power grabbing that's happening.
Speaker C:Like, hey, I want you to get promoted.
Speaker C:This is how you get promoted.
Speaker C:This is what you do.
Speaker C:And so you have that, you know, corruption within the ranks a little bit and that stuff that happens too.
Speaker C:And you know, there's going to be those opportunistics.
Speaker C:There's the line like, hey, this.
Speaker C:This is my war, right?
Speaker C:I didn't get to fight the last one type of a feeling.
Speaker C:And so it's.
Speaker C:I've been waiting for this.
Speaker C:I've been waiting my 15 years.
Speaker C:And so you have some people who are truly psychotic, but they're.
Speaker C:They are.
Speaker C:You know, they want this.
Speaker C:And so it kind of can trickle up the chain of command all the way up to the top of the people who are making decisions.
Speaker C:But if I'm gonna go with philosophical, yeah, I think it's got to be Thin Red Line because of my absolute hate of what they did with Jeremy Davies.
Speaker C:And it's gotten to the point where I can't really watch much with Jeremy Davies in it because I'm like, dude, fucking Corporal.
Speaker C:Corporal Upham is the only fubar thing about this movie.
Speaker B:Left his buddy high and dry to just get killed.
Speaker B:But, yeah, that Nick Noltecy, what he's like, what does he say?
Speaker B:Like, I'm gonna.
Speaker B:I'm gonna put up our.
Speaker B:A silver star.
Speaker B:You want a purple hardtail?
Speaker B:I'll give it to you.
Speaker B:Like, I'll do right by.
Speaker B:Like, jeez, dude.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, gamify war a little bit.
Speaker B:I guess I'll go.
Speaker B:For me, the easy is an easy answer.
Speaker B:I think, overall, I give it to the Thin Red Line for this one because of some of the things outside of war, like the.
Speaker B:I can't remember which soldier it was, but his was.
Speaker B:It was his wife that ended up like, that was his hold on.
Speaker B:That was what his anchor to get him through, to keep him sane.
Speaker B:And I remember texting Jay this.
Speaker B:I was like, damn.
Speaker B:When she writes him and said, I, hey, I found some other soldiers that came home.
Speaker B:Like, shoot, dude, I don't have the stats, but I'm.
Speaker B:I guarantee that happened a decent amount.
Speaker B:And you imagine getting that letter with all the crap that you've just been through for months or a couple years, and.
Speaker B:And that's what you get.
Speaker B:Like, oh, man, what would that do to a man out there in the field?
Speaker B:And how would that make you feel?
Speaker B:Because I.
Speaker B:I have never been to war, never will be, but I've been in circumstances.
Speaker B:When I've been away from my family, I went on a Mormon mission.
Speaker B:A very different circumstance.
Speaker B:I was safe physically and mentally.
Speaker B:But, like, when you're that far away, like, you hold on to the memories and your family and things.
Speaker B:And if someone, like, broke me off or whatever, it's like, like.
Speaker B:And I can only, like, the times up by 100 in war.
Speaker B:That's one really hit me.
Speaker B:Because it felt so real about.
Speaker B:I think they just.
Speaker B:In the Thin Red Line, they did a better job showing just what it would feel like maybe if you were there, like if you went crazy, they showed that.
Speaker B:Or if you were power hungry, if you were trying to do right by your men.
Speaker B:But that doesn't mean the army thinks you're actually doing the right thing by saving lives.
Speaker B:If you are the guy that the captain decided to save the lives and then you get screwed and.
Speaker B:And your.
Speaker B:Your team knows about it, but what are you going to do?
Speaker B:But you're kind of like, well, I do get to go home.
Speaker B:But you feel guilty because if you do go home, you know you're leaving those men to potentially die because you're not there to stand up for them to the.
Speaker B:Looking at the.
Speaker B:The Japanese soldiers where you.
Speaker B:Do you want to take them as prisoners or you just want to.
Speaker B:You want to kill them and save pr.
Speaker B:Ryan did a very, very good job of portraying that dilemma as well in a couple scenes.
Speaker B:But I just think there's more moments in A Thin Red Line that they show where Saving Private Run does a really good job.
Speaker B:And this is specifically through Tom Hanks and how he talks about the soldiers is that dilemma of why do we have to go save the one?
Speaker B:And as they.
Speaker B:Where I will disagree a little bit with the character progression, I think it was Alec that said it is.
Speaker B:I do think there's some learning from this group about they bulk at that idea for a long time and then as they get to the end, they realize war is not what we thought it was.
Speaker B:We need something to hold on to that feels like wholesome and right and good.
Speaker B:And you know what?
Speaker B:Saving someone's life gives purpose to the shit show that we're in.
Speaker B:And they hold on to that a little bit more.
Speaker B:And I like that message, but I just think there's more messages and a Thin Red line that show you that war is not glamorous, war is not fun, and war is really hard.
Speaker B:Not just the fighting, but the other implications in and around it.
Speaker B:And for that, I think it just has a little bit more weight to it in the way that it's told.
Speaker A:Yeah, this is.
Speaker A:This is my hot take.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The one thing that ruins Saving Private Ryan for me through and through is the scene we.
Speaker A:You just talked about.
Speaker A:Al 1.
Speaker A:There's this attempt to show what Thin Red Line does a very good job of like the politics of war at the higher end by inserting up them into this group.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:There's no reason for him to be there other than the, the Colonel or whatever.
Speaker A:I can't remember whoever like inserts him there to his like the guy, the help or whatever.
Speaker A:I don't even remember the reason that's how much I hate that story piece be is because to say, well he has, he's there to make sure they get there and don't just quit trying to find him or whatever.
Speaker A:And I hate that because there's.
Speaker A:I mean this is an elite fighting group.
Speaker A:I mean they, they show.
Speaker A:This is a group that's seasoned, they know each other and they're gonna follow orders especially based on Tom Hanks character.
Speaker A:They're gonna follow this order and they're gonna do it in the best and most efficient way possible.
Speaker A:And then Upham comes in and it all up like.
Speaker A:And, and, and I'm sorry but.
Speaker A:And I know Tom Hanks is trying to be the one because I'm, I'm with Alec.
Speaker A:Like, I don't see.
Speaker A:I see both points.
Speaker A:The, the character progression for me in Saving Private Ryan.
Speaker A:Ryan is pretty much non existent.
Speaker A:It's these stereotypical pieces from soldiers and they plug them in and they all have their part to play to move the story forward.
Speaker A:But Tom Hanks's character is supposed to be.
Speaker A:Who has some of that development around.
Speaker A:Well, we're not just here to fight.
Speaker A:I'm a teacher and I was a very peaceful man.
Speaker A:And now I'm in this war and I'm very good at it and leading this group to that progression.
Speaker A:But he undermines himself by letting up them.
Speaker A:Convince him to let this guy go from a group like this.
Speaker A:Like I could see it from a normal commander who's not in charge of a bunch of Rangers, Airborne Rangers that are supposed to be the best of the best of what they do.
Speaker A:But this guy, there's no way they let this guy go.
Speaker A:No way.
Speaker A:Not a chance in hell.
Speaker A:And it bothers me that Upham comes in and disrupts that and so, and whether or not it's right, I don't know.
Speaker A:Like, you know, I'm not a soldier, I never was.
Speaker A:But I, I just have a hard time going, oh yeah, they'll just put a blindfold on him and send him down the way to rejoin the ranks of the German army.
Speaker A:And then we find him again later and I'm just like, oh God.
Speaker A:And then the fact that Upham waits and then gets his come up it.
Speaker A:I think this movie would have been just as good, if not better if you just pull up them out of It.
Speaker A:You don't even have to have.
Speaker A:They can have a moral discussion where Tom Hanks is like, we don't really need to kill this guy.
Speaker A:We should let him go.
Speaker A:And the soldiers are like that we're murking this guy and then they do it.
Speaker A:Or.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:Or he makes a judgment call and lets him go and.
Speaker A:But up them just.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:I hate it.
Speaker A:And I feel like they were trying to force some character development in there that I don't need for this to be a good movie.
Speaker A:Now I say all that because you also have to have this moral discussion and the, you know, the.
Speaker A:What we're talking about here.
Speaker A:Like this.
Speaker A:This whole philosophical range of this guy.
Speaker A:He's captured in the grand scheme of things, one soldier doesn't make a difference.
Speaker A:Now they do a good job of showing that that's not always the case right throughout the.
Speaker A:In this movie.
Speaker A:I just don't like the way that they do it because it's distracting to me and I feel like it doesn't help.
Speaker A:That's my one beef about saving.
Speaker A:It's like the thing that makes.
Speaker A:I'm like, ugh.
Speaker A:Every time I watch it, I'm like.
Speaker A:I just roll my eyes and go, I hate this part.
Speaker A:The thin red with thin red line.
Speaker A:Like I think the reason it takes it for this.
Speaker A:On this.
Speaker A:This category for me is the different pieces that you get to your point.
Speaker A:You got people that are losing their and you got people that want to be in this war.
Speaker A:You got people.
Speaker A:And I tear.
Speaker A:I completely agree with you.
Speaker A:The best performance across the board in both these movies.
Speaker A:And Nick Nolte, no questions Asked.
Speaker A:And don't get me wrong, Jim Caviezel killed it this movie.
Speaker A:God, why can't I think of the other one?
Speaker A:Anyway, there's a couple.
Speaker A:There's a number of great performances across the board in these movies.
Speaker A:But from a moral dilemma and like this whole philosophical standpoint, there are so many more shady, shitty things that are done in Thin Red Line that I would imagine were very true and happen all the time.
Speaker A:And even in modern day military, I am sure that there are career soldiers that want their glory and they want that.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:And I hate to say that not but that's the nature of humans.
Speaker A:And I love that this movie portrays it to that level, I think where they both do very good.
Speaker A:And the balance is the.
Speaker A:The choice between taking care of my soldiers and the choice between, you know, is it worth the lives of my soldiers to win this particular battle or do I send them in on the chance that we win it and, you know, secure this position or whatever it might be versus the, nah, this isn't the right way to do it.
Speaker A:And so I think they both do a very good job of that.
Speaker A:And one of the biggest ones for me on that is early on in Saving Private Ryan when freaking Vin Diesel's doe ass character gets caught up.
Speaker A:And I think, to me, this was the better version of doing the right thing versus doing the wrong thing.
Speaker A:And it gets you in trouble.
Speaker A:Then ups when he's trying to save the family and the little girl specifically because the parents, like, get her out of here, and then he pays that price for it.
Speaker A:To me, that's the moral dilemma that I'm like, oh, because I don't know that I wouldn't make that choice.
Speaker A:That's a cute little girl.
Speaker A:And I feel bad for her being in a war zone, right?
Speaker B:Like, we know Alec wouldn't.
Speaker A:Alec don't give a.
Speaker A:But, like, I would have a hard time not latching, being Vin Diesel and latching on to that little girl and saying, we got to get her out of here, Cap, and then taking a sniper bullet for it.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:So to me, like, that's one of the better portrayals of, like, that balance of am I a good person or do I would.
Speaker A:Am I a soldier?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, to me.
Speaker A:And how does that balance get struck?
Speaker A:But I think overarching Thin Red Line does it great the best.
Speaker A:And I think it plays it to me because that's what this whole, to me, Thin Red Line, that's what it's about is the comparison of a soldier versus a human being.
Speaker A:Can they be both at the same time?
Speaker A:How does that develop?
Speaker A:What does war do to you?
Speaker A:Like, all of those are hinged on this philosophical moral dilemma of war in and of itself.
Speaker A:Whereas Saving Private Ryan has pieces of that around a very linear story that is very wholesome at the end because I agree, like, that is a great thing to save this and for this.
Speaker A:But I also go, is that mother's mental and emotional staving, that anguish worth however many soldiers it costs to go get Private Ryan?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So that's the.
Speaker A:The big moral question in that movie, and it's a tough one to answer, but Thin Red Line has so many branches of like.
Speaker A:And then you.
Speaker A:Like, I found myself in Thinner Line going, would I do that?
Speaker A:Like, how would I be?
Speaker A:Like, would I be a Nick Nolte?
Speaker A:Would I be, you know, any one of these characters that does weird or tries not to.
Speaker A:So yeah, it's a tough one.
Speaker A:Tough one, you're gonna say.
Speaker B:That's why I like these movies.
Speaker B:Is it?
Speaker B:There isn't really like a finite answer at the end.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:It leaves it up to your interpretation.
Speaker B:But out rounds us out.
Speaker B:So it brings us to ratings.
Speaker B:Let's wrap this sucker up.
Speaker B:J.
Speaker B:I guess it's your movie, your first.
Speaker A:Yeah, my movies.
Speaker A:This is a.
Speaker A:Oh God, this one's tough.
Speaker A:I'm giving four and a halfs to both.
Speaker A:I'm gonna give them both the same score and then I'll tell you why I don't give them fives.
Speaker A:Saving Private Ryan doesn't get a five for me because of the parts of the story that pull me out, namely up them.
Speaker A:There's a couple of scenes that I just don't need.
Speaker A:Like there's some, like the length.
Speaker A:While I love the scene with Vin Diesel's character early on, like the length of that scene and then the ridiculousness of the sniper shooting the dude through his own sniper scope.
Speaker A:And like there's some things that I'm just like that just feels not necessary.
Speaker A:So those are the things that for Saving Private Ryan, Thin Red Line is, is.
Speaker A:It's bloated at times.
Speaker A:Like there are.
Speaker A:You could cut.
Speaker A:I still think they could get up the point across in the character development there and cut back some of like the slower pieces and even some of the.
Speaker A:The higher level conversations that happen that don't impact the main characters in the movie, at least not directly.
Speaker A:I think there's some of those that could have been edited out.
Speaker A:I think for me, Thin Red Line's biggest issue is it didn't have to be three hours long.
Speaker A:It could have been two and a half and it still would have been just as good.
Speaker A:I think Saving Private Ryan needed to because of the opening scene, but there was a lot of weird choices that they made that I think they were trying to inject some of the things that didn't.
Speaker A:That Red Line did so well into a movie that was never built to be a Thin red line.
Speaker A:It was built to be a more marketable film with some really great things.
Speaker A:And so I think those are the two places where they suffer very different reasons that they suffer in RNA 5, but they're both four and a half amazing movies.
Speaker A:As far as the matchup, here's another hot take.
Speaker A:I would pick A Thin Red Line over Saving Private Ryan as far as the better movie because again, I think for me in this case, I don't Want the mainstream based movie.
Speaker A:I want the movie that from start to finish, makes me question how I would be in every situation that we see in that movie.
Speaker A:And the inner dialogue and the.
Speaker A:Those kind of things.
Speaker A:Like, I'm not a huge fan typically of that kind of like voiceover, but I love it in this film.
Speaker A:It works so well for me.
Speaker A:So that's where I'm going.
Speaker A:The battle is won by Thin Red Line.
Speaker A:It's a very close one, but they're both four and a halfs and phenomenal movies.
Speaker B:I'll go.
Speaker B:I'm gonna give Saving private Ryan A4.
Speaker B:I'm gonna give a thin red line a 3.5.
Speaker B:And if I had, obviously it's clearly defined who I'm picking one or the other.
Speaker B:I think what it comes down to for me is I'm never gonna want.
Speaker B:I don't think I'll ever watch A Thin Red Line again.
Speaker B:I might watch the Nick and Nolte scenes.
Speaker B:In fact, I kind of want to, but I do not want to watch the whole movie over again.
Speaker B:It is just.
Speaker B:It's far too bloated.
Speaker B:If there was a movie right for a re edit, as JJ talked about, please do that to A Thin Red Line, I'll watch it again.
Speaker B:There's just some things you can pull out, some.
Speaker B:There's so many narratives.
Speaker B:Take two out, you're gonna save yourself some time and I'll watch it.
Speaker B:It's just, it's.
Speaker B:It's heavy and it's slow and I.
Speaker B:There's not enough action to want me, like, to pull me in to watch it.
Speaker B:But, man, the acting's so good.
Speaker B:But gosh dang it, it is so long.
Speaker B:Saving Private Ryan.
Speaker B:For me, it's like I said at the beginning, I still will watch like this, like the opening scene probably, if not every year, like every other year or something.
Speaker B:Just because it's amazing.
Speaker B:Like, it doesn't.
Speaker B:It doesn't get better than that.
Speaker B:But it is a slow decline after that and even Tom Hanks can't save it.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:It's kind of.
Speaker B:Again, kind of like Thin Red Line.
Speaker B:It's a pacing thing.
Speaker B:It kind of just.
Speaker B:It burns so hot that it doesn't have anything left to burn.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:It's a slog afterwards as well.
Speaker B:So these are imperfect movies to me.
Speaker B:But in terms of.
Speaker B:I know I'm giving him slightly lower ratings, but like, of all war movies that I've seen at then, Red Line is now like, very much at the top of that And Saving Private Ryan, I think is number one.
Speaker B:Like, I, it's.
Speaker B:I mean, in terms of realism, it's just hard to compete with it.
Speaker B:But these movies, they're not without their flaws.
Speaker B:And a lot of it just comes down to sheer length.
Speaker B:And I feel like all war movies are long, but gosh dang it, like, you chop off 20 minutes on both of these, it'd be a beautiful thing.
Speaker B:Then redline needs like 35 minutes chopped off.
Speaker A:But, you know, I'm excited.
Speaker A:We're gonna do a war movie month one of these times and, And I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring the pain for Matson to let him see some additional movies that I bet he hasn't seen that I think he'll like.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:I've seen a lot of them, but yeah, there's.
Speaker A:I got some obscure ones that are real good.
Speaker C:I'm flip flopped of Matson.
Speaker C:I'm giving Saving Private Ryan three and a half than red line of four.
Speaker C:Saving Private Ryan, if it was 20 minutes long, is perfection.
Speaker C:Absolute perfection.
Speaker C:The things that I have a problem with, that I hate, I think are just ruin it, right?
Speaker C:So you got Colonel, you got Corporal Upham.
Speaker C:Stupid.
Speaker C:You have, like, you were talking about jj scenes that could be cut, namely the fact that like the, the entire sequence where they're waiting for that final battle.
Speaker C:You got Matt Damon telling the stupid ass story about the last time he was with his brothers.
Speaker C:I, I hate it.
Speaker C:Everything about it.
Speaker C:Anytime Corporal Upham is translating drives me nuts.
Speaker C:Because he doesn't act like an actual translator.
Speaker C:What?
Speaker C:He acts like he, you know, read a German dictionary or a French dictionary.
Speaker A:And then why they insert him is to be a.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker A:I remember now.
Speaker A:And then, like two days ago.
Speaker A:And now I remember.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And then it's capped off with a lot of cool stories from other wars.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:The entire premise behind Saving Private Ryan, the entire story happened in a different war, really.
Speaker C:And then you have the sniper shot through the scope.
Speaker C:That's the thing that happened the Vietnam War.
Speaker C:And they're like, oh, that was cool.
Speaker C:Let's throw it in here.
Speaker C:And so you have almost, after the first 20 minutes, the rest of it's like, oh, this would be cool, this would be cool.
Speaker C:This would be cool.
Speaker C:And it just kind of falls apart for me.
Speaker C:Then Red Line, I think, does a better job of being that cohesive unit.
Speaker C:Yes, it's long, it's a slog, but I mean, it's, it's feeling like an echo chamber.
Speaker C:At this point.
Speaker C:But Nick Nolte just.
Speaker C:If I had to choose and take it down to one character.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:In a similar character, you got Nick Nolte versus Tom Hanks.
Speaker C:And so I'm.
Speaker C:I'm giving it the thin red line on this one because I will watch it again.
Speaker C:But I.
Speaker C:I would only watch the first 20 minutes of saving Private Ryan.
Speaker A:That's fair.
Speaker A:I'm glad you'd watch it again.
Speaker A:It always makes me happy when I introduce you guys to movies that you.
Speaker B:Enjoy and, like, I want to watch it again.
Speaker B:But we.
Speaker A:It's a lot.
Speaker A:It's a lot.
Speaker A:I was trying to see if Nolte even got nominated for that in any way, shape or form.
Speaker B:He should have.
Speaker A:I don't think he did.
Speaker B:Did he not have a big enough part for him to really be considered?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:It's got.
Speaker A:Here's the thing is none of the actors were nominated.
Speaker A:It doesn't look like the Academy.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:It was up for best Picture, Best Director, best Writing, best Cinematography, best Sound, best Film Editing, Best Music.
Speaker A:But it also was in 99 versus 98, where saving private Ryan cleaned up well.
Speaker B:Yeah, half of those.
Speaker B:It was never going to beat Saving Private Ryan for.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which I'm sure is why they did a limited release in 98 and then the full release in 99, so it would qualify for the 99 awards cycle.
Speaker A:But, yeah, it doesn't look like it was all nominees.
Speaker A:It doesn't look like they won anything, which is a shame.
Speaker B:It's too long.
Speaker A:It is long.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker C:Well, that's because they didn't expect the Matrix to come after out of nowhere.
Speaker A:Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker C:I was in 99.
Speaker A:No kidding.
Speaker B:Yeah, That's a fair point.
Speaker B:You couldn't.
Speaker B:I mean, yeah, I like it.
Speaker B:Then red light.
Speaker B:But you want to compare it to the Matrix.
Speaker B:All Matrix.
Speaker B:I'll watch it any given hour over this movie.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And like, OG Matrix.
Speaker B:So it's you.
Speaker B:I mean, so that's like, top five best movies I've ever seen, I think.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's out there.
Speaker A:Which we reviewed.
Speaker A:So go take a listen to that one, too.
Speaker A:A few episodes back.
Speaker B:Just go watch.
Speaker B:That's a movie I could watch, like, anytime.
Speaker A:Me too.
Speaker A:So good.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Well, it's been a fun month, boys.
Speaker A:This was.
Speaker A:This is a good episode.
Speaker A:A lot to talk about.
Speaker B:A slog.
Speaker B:It is a lot of work to do this.
Speaker B:We'll probably do it every year in February since it's a shorter month.
Speaker B:These podcasts Go longer.
Speaker B:They're also, I think more serious.
Speaker B:This is when we get to like true movie analysis, I would say because you all that listen to us, we more so shoot the breeze.
Speaker B:In other movies sometimes we'll, we'll dive into the weeds a little more.
Speaker B:These ones we get into the deep, deep weeds and actually tell you like we get really film criticy which I think is fun to get to the roots every now and then.
Speaker B:So hopefully I'll appreciated it.
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right, Alec, tell everybody where they can find us.
Speaker C:Happy to jj.
Speaker C:Well, that's a wrap.
Speaker C:I can finally stop being salty this month because we're into a brand new month where I have picks again.
Speaker C:That's right, but that's it.
Speaker C:Saving Private Ryan versus the Thin Red Line.
Speaker C:Do you guys agree with our verdict?
Speaker C:What do you think?
Speaker C:Do we get it right or are we in need of an appeal?
Speaker C:Courtroom jargon for you there.
Speaker C:Let us know your thoughts by hitting us up on social media or by leaving a comment on our YouTube video where you can see our smiling faces and Max's dead stare of deafness.
Speaker B:Alec, you don't want their appeal.
Speaker B:They just know you shoot them.
Speaker C:Like I have never shot a listener.
Speaker C:Just want to put that out there.
Speaker B:I just talked about the moral implications we just talked about with war, there'd be no quarter from you.
Speaker C:Oh yeah, no, absolutely not.
Speaker C:With that I will kick it back.
Speaker C:Oh wait, no.
Speaker C:Special shout out and thank you to our patrons, Rich and CB for selecting the movies within this topic.
Speaker C:Got a great lineup coming next month and if you guys want to get involved with the selections of both monthly topics and the movies that go within those monthly topics, hit us up on Patreon what's our verted reviews and join our crew of misfits.
Speaker C:Now with that, I'll kick it back to our fearless leader, the titan of terror, the king of Crash, Ajayjay.
Speaker A:Yeah, appreciate that Alec.
Speaker A:And definitely appreciate our patrons.
Speaker A:They're awesome.
Speaker A:We love them.
Speaker A:But yeah, as always, we appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker A:We'll catch you on the next one.
Speaker C:Hasta la vista, baby.
Speaker A:Cinematic.
