Avatar (2009)
This podcast episode delves into a critical examination of the cinematic phenomenon that is the Avatar franchise, focusing specifically on the first installment, released in 2009. As the hosts, J.J. and Alec, express their sentiments, they contend that while the film exhibits remarkable visual artistry and groundbreaking technology, it ultimately falters due to its derivative narrative. The hosts navigate through their contrasting perspectives, with J.J. articulating profound dissatisfaction with the film's lack of originality, likening it to a rehashed tale of colonialism. Conversely, Alec acknowledges the film's merits, particularly the compelling performances of its cast, yet he echoes concerns regarding the film's pacing and over-reliance on visual spectacle. Together, they dissect the thematic and narrative shortcomings of Avatar, providing an insightful dialogue that challenges listeners to reconsider their perceptions of this celebrated cinematic work.
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Transcript
As the Sultan of Swat, the Wazir of Wap, I made a judgment call, and we only watched two Avatar movies.
Speaker A:Welcome to the what's Already podcast where we fashion ourselves cinematic judge and jury.
Speaker A:My name is J.J. crowder.
Speaker A:I'm here with my co host, Alec Burgess.
Speaker B:Let's get it.
Speaker A:We appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker A:Go hit that follow subscribe like bell notification buttons.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Tell a friend about us.
Speaker A:Tell a family member about us.
Speaker A:Tell some weird blue aliens about us.
Speaker A:Sure, that works too.
Speaker A:Or some Marines, I guess.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Whatever works.
Speaker A:Anyway, we've started a new month here at what's our Verdict In February.
Speaker A:And if you can't tell, I'm salty about it.
Speaker B:J.J. has not been happy once this entire year.
Speaker A:Dude, I'm telling you what this first two months are.
Speaker A:I'm batting a thousand at least the first half of this month.
Speaker A:I'm not real thrilled about the second half, okay?
Speaker A:But I got on this deal and I knew it was gonna happen because I bitched about these movies for so long.
Speaker A:And we have a lovely patron.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Charles set it up perfectly.
Speaker B:I understood the assignment.
Speaker B:Yeah, I took a gamble.
Speaker B:Almost got another clean sweep out of J.J. but yeah.
Speaker A:But I cheated.
Speaker A:I won't lie.
Speaker A:I cheated.
Speaker A:The vote was in, and all three of these got votes.
Speaker A:All three of the Avatar movies got votes, but Aliens also got a vote from somebody.
Speaker A:So Avatar 3 and aliens tied.
Speaker A:And I'll be God damned if I'm going to a movie theater to watch an Avatar movie.
Speaker A:So as the Sultan of Swat, the Wazir of Wap, I made a judgment call and we only watched two Avatar movies for the month.
Speaker A:So if you ever can't tell, it's James Cameron movies month.
Speaker A:Thanks, Charles.
Speaker A:I hate you and love you for yeah, but if you want to torture me or Alec, he's torturable too.
Speaker A:Go check us out on Patreon.
Speaker A:You can vote on con on different topics.
Speaker A:You can give us topics.
Speaker A:Vote on movies.
Speaker A:We pick Phyllis topics.
Speaker A:You can also just straight up torture us for a little bit of money.
Speaker A:You can make us watch movies.
Speaker A:And because we tied, I Alex movies as of today, when you're listening, this recording will be up as well.
Speaker A:So both sides will have our just the tip list that I'm excited.
Speaker B:I still haven't looked to see what is on my list.
Speaker A:Yeah, he'll find out too.
Speaker B:I like to be surprised.
Speaker A:It's gonna be fun.
Speaker A:So, yeah, if you can go do that.
Speaker A:Just a few bucks and we'll.
Speaker A:We'll Watch it and it'll be a bonus episode.
Speaker A:We'll call you out.
Speaker A:It'll be great.
Speaker A:With that, let's actually get into this movie.
Speaker A:We're here watching and.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:It was written and directed by James Cameron.
Speaker A:It stars Sam Worthington, Zoe Saldana, Sigourney Weaver, Stephen Lang, Michelle Rodriguez, Giovanni Ribisi Joel David Moore, CCH Pounder West Studi, Laz Alonso.
Speaker A:I could keep going on and on and on.
Speaker A:There's a huge list of cast for this, so I'll stop there.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker A:It'S about a paraplegic marine who's dispatched to the moon.
Speaker A:Pandora, on a unique mission, becomes.
Speaker B:Wait.
Speaker A:A paraplegic marine dispatched to the moon, Pandora, on a unique mission, becomes torn between following his orders, protecting the world he feels is his home.
Speaker A:There's no, there's no grammar marks in that, so I was a little confused as to when I needed to pause and all that.
Speaker A:So anyway, Jesus, Avatar.
Speaker A:Alec, this is your movie.
Speaker A:Go yourself and tell us why you picked it, besides to torture my ass.
Speaker A:And you knew the assignment.
Speaker B:That was the primary reason.
Speaker B:Now, however, there are parts of this movie that I really like, and I will say that the first about 30 minutes or so is really good.
Speaker B:They do a good job setting up the story.
Speaker B:You're introduced to your main characters, you get a feel of what's happening.
Speaker B:And it's pretty interesting story, right?
Speaker B:New world, this kind of like terror forming, going out mining, you know, building a new earth essentially, but, you know, ripping all the natural resources out of it.
Speaker B:It's a cool story, sets you up real nice.
Speaker B:And then you get to the name of the movie, which is Avatar, and it just kind of goes straight downhill.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's like a dead duck pretty much from that point on, which is a bummer.
Speaker B:And I think James Cameron, it's.
Speaker B:James Cameron's a little bit of an enigma for me.
Speaker B:Whatever he touches turns into a billion dollar movie.
Speaker A:Mm.
Speaker B:He's got that Golden King Midas touch for this franchise specifically.
Speaker B:He's very careful of it and only puts out what he thinks is gonna be good and it goes.
Speaker B:Makes a million billion dollars.
Speaker B:The problem is, I think from a casting standpoint, they did too good of a job in one character in particular, and that's Stephen Lane as Miles Quaritch.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker B:You're not supposed to like the villain more than anybody else in the movie.
Speaker B:And it's, it's, it's so much so that he, like, I, I Feel bad watching this movie because I. I'm like, damn, Stephen Lane's not gonna win.
Speaker B:You don't.
Speaker B:You're not supposed to want Stephen Lane to win.
Speaker B:But I want him to win more than anybody else in this movie.
Speaker B:He is so good in this role.
Speaker B:And then, you know, spoiler alert if you guys haven't seen it.
Speaker B:But, you know, the fact that you then have to keep bringing this dude back.
Speaker B:And I'll give you a spoiler, J.J. since I know you're never going to see it.
Speaker B:You know, he's back in the third one too.
Speaker B:Like, so it's one of those scenes where you gotta let him go at some point, right?
Speaker B:But you can't, because he is the best part of this entire franchise.
Speaker B:Best part of the movie.
Speaker B:So much so that, you know, Sam Orient, I think, does a great job.
Speaker B:The problem is Jake Sully as a character is stupid, terrible character.
Speaker B:He does a great job with what he's given, but it's.
Speaker B:It's just such a dumb character.
Speaker B:You don't need them.
Speaker B:This, this would be really cool if you set up almost like this back and forth fight.
Speaker B:And it's straight up Natiri and Quaritch courage.
Speaker B:I don't need the love story.
Speaker B:I don't need the, you know, go be an Avatar blue people, whatever thing.
Speaker B:You could add that part in to introduce, you know, the navi.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But dude, this would be so much better if you just had fucking Miles Quaritch on one side, Terry on the other side.
Speaker B:And they're just going at it because that's.
Speaker B:That's almost what we get anyway, right?
Speaker B:It's the back and forth between these two.
Speaker B:And freaking Jake Sully is the guy in the middle, which is a bummer because I really like Sam Worthington.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:But your title, your main character is so useless and unnecessary.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:It's so.
Speaker B:It's a weird relationship.
Speaker B:I have this movie because the.
Speaker B:There.
Speaker B:There's parts of it I really enjoy.
Speaker B:And the problem is that it's wrapped in a big lot parts that I don't necessarily enjoy even a little bit.
Speaker B:But what about you, jj?
Speaker B:I know you love these movies.
Speaker A:Jesus.
Speaker A:Okay, I'm gonna start with what I like because it's very little, but.
Speaker A:And I know I'm gonna catch a rash of for this.
Speaker A:Like, I know I am, because people love this movie and I.
Speaker A:And I don't understand it and I never have.
Speaker A:And so here's what I love.
Speaker A:Listen, the cast is outrageous.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:It just is.
Speaker A:And it's it's arguably one of the best, like, cumulative casts, ensemble cast that's ever been, in my opinion.
Speaker A:Zoe Saldana is one of my favorite actresses on the planet.
Speaker A:Has been before she was ever the highest grossing actor on the planet.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Which she just hit, which I think is amazing, mostly because of these movies, but what the ever.
Speaker A:But on top of that, Stephen Lang, low key, been one of my favorite actors my whole life, because the guy just chews up scenes.
Speaker A:It doesn't matter who he's in a scene with.
Speaker A:He owns it.
Speaker A:And it's just who he is.
Speaker A:I like Sam Worthington.
Speaker A:I've always enjoyed him.
Speaker A:I even like the Sigourney Weaver, one of my favorites.
Speaker A:I even like the goofy, jealous scientist guy.
Speaker A:I don't remember the actor's name, but he's funny in most of the movies he's in.
Speaker A:So the cast is insane.
Speaker A:My biggest problem with it is I'm to your credit.
Speaker A:Like, when it starts, I'm like, where are we going with this?
Speaker A:This is interesting.
Speaker A:And then we get to the Avatar part, and like you said, it all goes downhill.
Speaker A:And there's so many pieces of it that frustrate me because basically what he did was, hey, I've got this really interesting idea.
Speaker A:I want to have the humans be to the point that we can go and we can put ourselves in this alien body, right?
Speaker A:And that helps us to interact with these natives.
Speaker A:But then all of a sudden, we went from this is a cool and interesting idea to Pocahontas.
Speaker A:And now that Disney owns this, just go watch Pocahontas.
Speaker A:It's a better movie and it's hours shorter, so.
Speaker A:And I think that's where I get pissed.
Speaker A:Like, I'm like, stop making this movie.
Speaker A:Some outrageously cool movie and story.
Speaker A:It's goddamn Pocahontas.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker B:It's it.
Speaker A:And I'm like, I. I'd rather you tell me that story or go watch that story than have you shamelessly fucking swipe it and put it on a different planet with some interesting weird aliens.
Speaker A:And the next piece, that's my favorite piece of this, and it, especially with this movie, because it was groundbreaking, was the visuals.
Speaker A:Absolutely beautiful movie.
Speaker A:I remember seeing a theater in 3D because that's what everybody told me I needed to do.
Speaker A:And as pissed off as I was about the story, I could not stop watching the 3D because that real D at the first time it came out, it was like, this is wild.
Speaker A:The wasn't coming and getting in my face all arbitrarily it was like just.
Speaker A:It had depth and it was cool and hell.
Speaker A:And that's what James Cameron to me does.
Speaker A:If you look at James Cameron movies like the iconic James Cameron movies, Terminator, Aliens, Titanic, this one, these ones.
Speaker A:He changes the game, right?
Speaker A:He does visually and it's epic scope of everything that's wildly outrageous and huge.
Speaker A:And he has the balls to do it.
Speaker A:And it'll take 10 years to pull it off, 20 years to pull it off, whatever it is, right.
Speaker A:Which I think is.
Speaker A:Is to his credit insanely cool.
Speaker A:But what he does to.
Speaker A:To be so good in those realms, he lacks in fucking storytelling.
Speaker A:Because he especially here I think I can make arguments for some of the other movies that that's different.
Speaker A:But in here, in this movie, it was like they went, ah, we don't.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:This is about visuals and something new.
Speaker A:We're just gonna steal a story and then we're gonna put it on screen.
Speaker A:And that's what they did.
Speaker A:And fine, whatever.
Speaker A:It made 233 million in opening weekend and is over a billion dollars or whatever.
Speaker A:Still.
Speaker A:I think one of the high.
Speaker A:I mean it's top three highest grossing movies of all time and probably will be for as long as it can be out there, but especially if they keep re releasing it to take over the record again.
Speaker A:But that's it.
Speaker A:Like, I think it's such a conflicting thing for me this one.
Speaker A:Now next week we're gonna get into a whole different discussion, but this one, like for me there's what's really good is really good, but what's bad just weighs it down.
Speaker A:It's like they tied a goddamn concrete shoes on the bottom of it and threw it in the water.
Speaker A:Which they did 20 years later, 10 years later.
Speaker A:But anyway, it just.
Speaker A:It pisses me off and I think that I get so frustrated by the lack of originality in the story.
Speaker A:And to your credit, I think it'd be amazing if one of two things or both things.
Speaker A:Jake Sully doesn't need to be a paraplegic.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:He just doesn't like.
Speaker A:I get it.
Speaker A:Early on I was like, oh, that's cool.
Speaker A:He's gonna get his legs back.
Speaker A:And then we diverted to Pocahontas 2.0.
Speaker A:And then I went.
Speaker A:There was no point in him having the.
Speaker A:Having lost the ability to use his legs other than the MacGuffin that courts uses to.
Speaker A:I'll get you your legs back if you get me in.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:But there's so many other things that that could have been like, just use the fact that he's a soldier and a loyal Marine instead of, you know, and the story's still there.
Speaker A:His brother's dead.
Speaker A:He fits into the avatar.
Speaker A:It's a waste of a billion dollars or whatever the it was.
Speaker A:I don't need him to be a paraplegic.
Speaker A:It doesn't help move the story along.
Speaker A:It just doesn't.
Speaker A:It does early and then it goes to the sideways and nobody even gives a okay other than he can't defend himself at the end.
Speaker A:So I'm with you.
Speaker A:Get rid of that and then make it just this ass clown against the natives and let's go.
Speaker A:I'm down.
Speaker A:War movie.
Speaker A:That's beautiful.
Speaker A:I'm in 100%.
Speaker A:But yeah, yeah, it's just convoluted and ugly.
Speaker B:So here's the other thing that.
Speaker B:Because you.
Speaker B:You hit on a good point.
Speaker B:My light just went out, but you hit on a good point.
Speaker B:The visuals of this are incredible and I feel like it's used as a crutch and we'll get into this in later weeks, but I think it's used as a crutch to excuse bullshit.
Speaker B:And something that doesn't get enough credit, in my opinion is actually John Cameron James Brother.
Speaker B:I looked this up.
Speaker B:He was the military technical advisor for this film and I think he did phenomenal.
Speaker B:Yeah, there is.
Speaker B:You know, as.
Speaker B:As far as coaching Sam Worthington on how to.
Speaker B:It's hard to say because I've known people in the military pretty closely and they all have this one trait which is like, very comfortable at being uncomfortable.
Speaker B:And it's hard to always put that on screen like you.
Speaker B:Normally the tech advisor is about, like cycling a weapon or, you know, movement or how to, you know, run a squad, things like that.
Speaker B:But I swear, the most enjoyment I have is watching Sam Worthington act like a Marine from the jarhead clan and going to my mind and replaying situations I've been in with people who've been in the Marine Corps, the Army, or, you know, the Navy.
Speaker B:And just being like, dude, it's like just cutting them out and putting them there.
Speaker B:And the one that sticks out to me the most is so stupid that.
Speaker B:But I cackle every single time is when he's, you know, tromping around the woods at night after he's been chased by the weapon, right?
Speaker B:And he finally runs into Tiri and he's, you know, following her home because he's like, okay, well, you know, you're my ride now, pretty much.
Speaker B:Congratulations.
Speaker B:And you have These little, you know, spores, Right.
Speaker B:That come down and to her it's like this big, you know, divine intervention type of a thing.
Speaker B:And any, any scientist who's running an avatar body is going to understand the thing.
Speaker B:First thing he does is slap him away.
Speaker B:And then she like gets mad at him and he's like looking at her and he slaps away.
Speaker B:And I'm watching that going, that is, that is.
Speaker B:I, I know people who that is their response where it's just, you know, shoo fly type of a thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then it just keeps getting better and better in these, what would be awkward moments for anybody.
Speaker B:And it's just Sam Worthington comfortable being uncomfortable.
Speaker B:And it's a, it's, it's something to do with the military, how they run basic and everything like that.
Speaker B:It's so funny because it's the one, the one trait that every single member of the armed forces has that I've ever met is they're very comfortable being uncomfortable.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it comes to the forefront in this so nicely.
Speaker B:But in my, in my thought, it gets overshadowed by the amazing visuals and just the spectacle of everything.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because I'm watching, I'm going, damn.
Speaker B:Like, there's a guy I used to work with, his name was Joseph.
Speaker B:And I'm sitting there going, that.
Speaker A:Did.
Speaker B:That exactly multiple times that I knew him.
Speaker B:Is.
Speaker B:It's so great because it's, it's a carbon copy and it's just.
Speaker B:And the only thing I could think of is like just walking in the situation and not having a rule or guidebook.
Speaker B:Not that he would read it anyway.
Speaker B:But not having a step by step plan.
Speaker B:So you just kind of go figure it out.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it doesn't matter that you're gonna be.
Speaker B:That it might be embarrassing or awkward or weird where it would stop.
Speaker B:Most people just like bucket.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like cool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I, I'm learning how to be one of them now because, you know, I got lost in the woods and you guys didn't help me with the giant leper came out.
Speaker B:You were very slow on the run.
Speaker B:Dr. Sigourney Weaver, like, thanks for that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so it's that like that is the most enjoyable part of the movie for me is watching the relationship, especially between him and Steve Lang.
Speaker B:This quartz, like that whole relationship is, is my favorite part of the movie.
Speaker B:And again it's like, great, the blue people are back.
Speaker B:Is essentially my kind of response.
Speaker B:Because I want more of that relationship.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And more of that unfolding.
Speaker B:Because that's cool.
Speaker B:That's Interesting.
Speaker B:I think that's the based in reality tie that these movies really suffer from not having.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker A:Like, excuse me.
Speaker A:Yeah, they.
Speaker A:I don't know, there was a lot of wasted.
Speaker A:I think it goes back to my gripe of the fact that they just lifted and dropped a.
Speaker A:A story.
Speaker A:Right, because you left no room for anything different to work.
Speaker A:Because I'm with you.
Speaker A:Like, I think if it was.
Speaker A:If it was just straight up a war and you had.
Speaker A:Instead of this love story playing out, you had Jake, who's like conflicted because he's bonding with these people in general, not just her.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Which he does, but she's the catalyst for it.
Speaker A:And what it really is, the part that's changing him.
Speaker A:But I want that relationship to grow.
Speaker A:If I have to watch the blue people, I want their me to understand.
Speaker A:But I want like, instead of there being this lead up to where we know he's gonna turn on him, like have him go to like battle almost with the human side and as an avatar to kind of like maybe be the smoothing over and.
Speaker A:And then he turns on the humans mid fight or something.
Speaker A:Because to me, like, I, I don't know, it sounds so simple and so small, but it just, to me would make a difference in the unoriginality of this story.
Speaker A:And I don't.
Speaker A:I mean, it's still going to be unoriginal.
Speaker A:I'm always going to have that gripe unless you completely overhaul it.
Speaker A:But it just.
Speaker A:There was just so much they could have done to build on what they had that they didn't do because they were so focused on the visualizations and the, you know, the making sure that this looks cool and the 3D and the.
Speaker A:All that.
Speaker A:Which turned out great, but it's only so good.
Speaker A:Like, if that's the case, just show me the goddamn documentary.
Speaker A:Yeah, you know, like, show me how you did it.
Speaker A:Don't show me a movie with it.
Speaker A:I, I don't know.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:And listen, this movie's way too long.
Speaker A:Like, even this one, at almost three hours long, it's too goddamn much.
Speaker A:Not only are you telling an unoriginal story that's been told a million times in a million different ways, but you bloated this to 3 hours long, 2 hours and 40 some odd minutes long, and it's just too much.
Speaker A:Like, I'm like halfway through, and I'll be honest, I've.
Speaker A:You know, I'd seen this one before, so halfway through I was skipping 10 seconds at a time to get to Some shit that I'm like, okay, I can watch this without.
Speaker A:Or I get to a part of.
Speaker A:God damn it.
Speaker A:I don't remember this part.
Speaker A:What the fuck happened here?
Speaker A:So I had to watch it and.
Speaker A:But I was like, I can't sit here for 2 hours and 42 minutes and watch this.
Speaker A:It's too fucking long.
Speaker A:I hate it.
Speaker B:There.
Speaker B:There's definite parts where it's just like, where it's.
Speaker B:Unfortunately, in my opinion, it's the parts that are the most visually appealing are the ones that you could cut tr.
Speaker A:True.
Speaker A:It's true.
Speaker A:Whatever.
Speaker A:I can't think of the word now.
Speaker A:I'm so salty.
Speaker B:But yeah, anyway, yeah, there's just all that.
Speaker B:And then another problem I have with this is the telegraphing, right.
Speaker B:And I, I know as soon as we see that big ass skull and they start talking about taruk Moctau, like, gee, I wonder what's gonna happen?
Speaker B: Like even: Speaker B:I. I knew.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:It's just telegraphed too much.
Speaker B:And the problem with this one is like, I think they blowed it 2 hours, 45 minutes, almost 3 hours.
Speaker B:Because James Cameron, right.
Speaker B:Who's who, I think he said he had this idea in like the 80s or 90s or something, then he put it on the back burner for 20 years, right.
Speaker B:Like there's no guarantee he's gonna make a second one.
Speaker B:Even though he said he was.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he waited like 15 years before second one.
Speaker B:So it's almost like you gotta tell everything that you want to tell in this first one because there may not be a second one.
Speaker B:When in reality, you could have split this into two and added more to it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But made it two instead of one and make it two regular length movies and tell a better story.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because we'll get this next week.
Speaker B:The problem is now it's almost like he's competitive with himself, right.
Speaker B:So now he's gotta make each one longer and each one's about 15 minutes longer.
Speaker B:And if you knew in advance, like, hey, I'm making five of these.
Speaker B:Which I'm pretty sure he did.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But he just didn't tell everybody what he was gonna do with it and kind of put on the back burner maybe, maybe not.
Speaker B:You know, it depends how the first one does.
Speaker B:And, oh, I want technology to be this or that.
Speaker B:And so there's always that unknown.
Speaker B:Probably gotta be like, hey, we need something here that's gonna be enough to hold it together.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, he just got to keep outdoing himself and so by the time we get to number five or whatever, it is gonna be a six hour long freaking marathon.
Speaker B:But it's just, it's, it's not like paced correctly, if that makes any sense to my mind.
Speaker A:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:Maybe I'm missing the entire big picture of it, but it, it feels like it's okay.
Speaker B:I don't know if I'm gonna do the second one one or third one or wrap this up.
Speaker B:So I want to make sure that I can get everything on my list into this movie.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so then you just have this extra bloating.
Speaker B:Bloating, bloating, bloating.
Speaker B:And then, you know, my final gripe and I don't know if you felt the same way is so big fight scene, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Obviously, you know, it's supposed to be going well because they got, you know, big old granddaddy dragon on their side, but it, it all gets tossed away.
Speaker B:All this work for about 20 minutes of like this big thing of gathering clans, you know, uniting different tribes.
Speaker B:We're gonna, gonna take the fight to them.
Speaker B:You know, we have someone who knows their tactics so he's gonna be able to lead us in a way that we've never been led before.
Speaker B:And they get the asses kicked.
Speaker B:Which, not surprising.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I mean I, I was annoyed.
Speaker B:I will get to that later.
Speaker B:But not surprised.
Speaker B:They got their asses kicked.
Speaker B:And then it's like, oh, okay, Yep.
Speaker B:Deity who's done nothing up to this point is just gonna all of a sudden decide to join in.
Speaker B:And here we go.
Speaker B:Good guys are gonna win.
Speaker B:Now watch this.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you know, my, my, my butt thinking like, okay, so they, you know, they can make this bond with the creatures.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So keep it pretty simple, right?
Speaker B:Dragons and horses type of a thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But then, you know, we see that nature can do with the leopard.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Make a bond with this leopard thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I'm sitting there going, why don't they get a bunch of the freaking tanks that are invincible to begin with?
Speaker B:Like obviously you're not going to want to ride a rhino, you know, every day, all day.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:But in special circumstances, like you know, charging these really cool mech robot things.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, hey buddy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, let's go get a hammerhead rhinos elephant.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I'm with you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Don't even get me started on this awa.
Speaker A:I'm saving that rant for part two.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker B:Then I'll say the other thing that bugs me.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So we, we get introduced to the arrows.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Right off the bat, I think it's a little, you know, redundant that a three foot arrow is also dipped in neurotoxin that's going to kill you in a minute because you get hit with all those things, you don't have a minute.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's a harpoon at that point.
Speaker A:That's a spear, that's not an arrow.
Speaker B:But we see that these can be fired into the cockpits of the support aircraft.
Speaker B:Down.
Speaker B:A little help.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Not enough of that happens.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:If you know that can be done, they're wasting a lot of time, like getting the dragons to throw them into something else.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm like, dude, you get like 5 of the people in a row with a bow.
Speaker A:They're all going down.
Speaker B:They're all going down because you're gonna come from above where there's no gun.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm sitting there like, okay, here we go.
Speaker B:You know, like, you think that, okay, you know, these arrows start.
Speaker B:Use them in the best way possible.
Speaker B:But no, after the door gunner.
Speaker B:That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So this is.
Speaker A:This leads me to my next point that I like.
Speaker A:And then the part that I. I'm with you.
Speaker A:I hate this is so my.
Speaker A:One of my favorite lines in this whole movie is when Sully's talking about getting the big granddaddy dragon or whatever, flying dude, and he's like, I was thinking it just goes to what you were saying earlier.
Speaker A:He's so stupid.
Speaker A:But I love it because it's so common sense.
Speaker A:He's like, nobody attacks this guy.
Speaker A:So he doesn't look up.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then I'm like, but wait, why the didn't you do that against the Marines?
Speaker A:You literally just told me the tactic.
Speaker A:But no, because even if you don't shoot your arrows through the window, drop down on that.
Speaker A:Which he does, right?
Speaker A:He's throwing all the bombs in the.
Speaker A:Why don't you just get everybody, go real high, then drop down like you said.
Speaker A:Everybody lands on one, drop some bombs, fall your ass off, let your little buddy catch your ass and let them all blow up.
Speaker A:Shoot some arrows on the way out.
Speaker A:And the ones that didn't get caught in the blast, it just again, it goes back to their.
Speaker A:They stole a story from real life, right?
Speaker A:About a group of indigenous people who were far less technologically advanced than the people that were trying to take over their land.
Speaker A:When you think about that from the Native American indigenous people here perspective, it makes sense that they got wrecked, right?
Speaker A:Health problems, weaponry was just far and above.
Speaker A:And there's no way.
Speaker A:Like, they did their best as far as like guerrilla warfare that fucking took a toll.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:They knew the land much better, things like that.
Speaker A:But at the end of the day, that technology is always going to win in that situation.
Speaker A:We have a situation here where you can negate the fucking technology.
Speaker A:And that's the part that pisses me off is it's like because you lifted and dropped a story that made sense why it didn't work into a situation where you didn't think through.
Speaker A:Oh, actually.
Speaker B:These advantages with the natives.
Speaker A:Not only do they know the land, and not only are they small enough to hide in these floating little islands as these big ass doofy clunky ships fly through, but you can get above them and drop down in.
Speaker A:And not only that, but you just told us the recipe 10 minutes beforehand to prepare for this fight.
Speaker A:So it just, it pisses me off because you it up because you had to like, be lazy about the story anyway.
Speaker A:Goddamn, I could go on for hours about the, the just clunky nature and someone didn't think it through.
Speaker A:They went, this is gonna make a billion dollars.
Speaker A:Because the visuals are cool and it's different and it's weird and it's James Cameron versus, hey, why don't we know that this is gonna make a billion dollars?
Speaker A:Why don't we make two and actually have a interesting story and have some common sense involved all the time instead of just certain moments of the movie.
Speaker A:But it is, it's hilarious.
Speaker A:He's like, oh, he's the biggest, baddest dude.
Speaker A:He doesn't look up.
Speaker B:Yeah, makes sense.
Speaker A:Great.
Speaker A:Now apply that to the technologically advanced humans and it's over.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Anyway, it's dumb.
Speaker A:Rate this blue thing.
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker A:First.
Speaker B:I'm gonna.
Speaker B:I'm gonna score this one probably a bit higher than it probably sounds like I should, but I'm gonna give it a two and a half right in the middle of the road.
Speaker B:I got a lot of problems with it.
Speaker B:But what I can't deny is that the, it's.
Speaker B:It's got all the right bones for it and it's just the medium that they chose to tell it in.
Speaker B:It was weird to me that that's the issue that I really have with it is the blue people are weird.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I mean, the, the visuals are great.
Speaker B:We talked about that.
Speaker B:And I really.
Speaker B:And again, something else.
Speaker B:You know, my favorite character is the bad guy.
Speaker B:But, you know, that's neither here nor there.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:The visuals aren't Enough to carry it through.
Speaker B:As great as that is, it's kind of like you've been, you know, talking about is this was a visual picture is essentially what it was, a way to showcase great new technology.
Speaker B:Amazing things that James Cameron has been working on for decades at this point.
Speaker B:And he finally was there.
Speaker B:He wants to showcase it.
Speaker B:So that's what he does.
Speaker B:And he needs a story to go in there because the story that you could to make it really cool is already there.
Speaker B:But the story took the backseat of the visuals.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And unfortunately, we'll talk about this probably a little bit later, is that it's not enough to carry it through.
Speaker B: And like right here,: Speaker B:That's why you get everybody.
Speaker B:It's like, oh, every single person who says they love this movie, the first thing they talk about is the visuals.
Speaker B:Yep, that's it.
Speaker B: And so in: Speaker B:Groundbreaking.
Speaker B:Yeah, amazing.
Speaker B:The real D3D stuff that was coming out phenomenal.
Speaker B:The story to back it up, not so much.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so I'll give it a Middle of the road.
Speaker B:I did a good job.
Speaker B:It could have been great, but it's.
Speaker B:It's right there.
Speaker B:Middle of the Road.
Speaker B:I'll watch it again.
Speaker B:I know it will.
Speaker B:But it's not a one that I watch frequently.
Speaker A:It's fair.
Speaker A:I'm gonna give this way higher than most people probably think I am that have been involved in this part, this podcast being finally fucking done after six goddamn years.
Speaker A:And that is.
Speaker A:I'm gonna give it right, the same as you, a two and a half.
Speaker A:And the reason for that is because two things.
Speaker A:One, I can't stand it.
Speaker A:I don't like the movie.
Speaker A:But I also understand that that's a personal thing.
Speaker A:It's not a true representation of the film itself.
Speaker A:The film itself is beautiful.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It was ballsy.
Speaker A:It was beautiful.
Speaker A:It was visually stunning.
Speaker A:It was interesting.
Speaker A:On the flip side of that, I can't go any higher than two and a half because the story is regurgitated that we've already seen a million times.
Speaker A:And they didn't even try to improve upon it or make any differences or changes.
Speaker A:They just said, here it is, it's already been told, we're going to adapt it into this format on a new planet, blah, blah, blah, blah, and maybe throw in the whole resource part of it.
Speaker A:It's not just a colonization thing.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker A:There's a resource that we want.
Speaker A:Which, by the way, is the dumbest name.
Speaker A:Are you me right Now.
Speaker B:God.
Speaker A:I was trying to avoid this but I couldn't.
Speaker A:Unobtainium.
Speaker A:Get the.
Speaker A:This is proof positive of the laziness of the writing of this show and of this movie.
Speaker A:And that is.
Speaker A:Come on, dude.
Speaker A:Anything else?
Speaker A:Don't even have it.
Speaker A:Have a name.
Speaker A:Just say that they have this precious metal that we want.
Speaker A:It's beautiful.
Speaker A:I don't need Unobtainium.
Speaker A:Get the out of here.
Speaker A:Obviously it is obtainable.
Speaker A:Cause you're there obtaining it.
Speaker A:Anyway.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:Two and a half.
Speaker A:Because Lazy ass.
Speaker A:Some of the laziest writing I've ever seen in my life in a movie.
Speaker A:But visually stunning.
Speaker A:Acting great.
Speaker A:Wonderful.
Speaker A:Beautiful.
Speaker A:So there's a lot of good things wrapped in this shitty package.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:But I can't.
Speaker A:I don't want to poo poo it and give it a Just a shitty.
Speaker A:Because I don't like it personally more than the fact that it's a bad movie.
Speaker A:Because it's not a bad movie.
Speaker A:It's just a meh movie to me.
Speaker A:But I hate it because everybody loves it so much and I'm like what the Are you seeing that I'm not pretty colors.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:It's so pretty.
Speaker A:Well I know it's pretty but that doesn't make a good movie.
Speaker A:Anyway.
Speaker A:Don't at me or at me.
Speaker A:We can have this argument.
Speaker A:I will argue this one all day.
Speaker A:I will actively avoid watching this ever again.
Speaker A:If this was the last time I ever watched this movie.
Speaker A:It'll be the greatest moment of my life.
Speaker A:So yeah.
Speaker A:There it is.
Speaker A:Avatar.
Speaker A:Alex.
Speaker A:Tell everybody where they can find this one.
Speaker A:I'm not bitching about giant blue people.
Speaker B:Happy to.
Speaker B:I. I've been so happy these first five weeks of the year.
Speaker B:I am.
Speaker B:I was on this podcast for three years with Matson and JJ and I. I'd never seen JJ this heated.
Speaker B:And Matson got him heated a lot.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker B:But it's been five weeks of just pure JJ meltdowns and it has been glorious.
Speaker A:It's fair.
Speaker B:With that.
Speaker B:You can find us on YouTube.
Speaker B:That's the best place to see our faces.
Speaker B:And you can see JJ's anger in his eyes every single time he opens his mouth.
Speaker B:It's great.
Speaker B:Best buzzf space.
Speaker B:Find us there to get involved in the podcast content creation Patreon at what's our version reviews.
Speaker B:It is completely free to get in there and vote for our topics and vote for the movies that we pick in those topics.
Speaker B: horse Beating the same stick: Speaker B:There's real stakes with it.
Speaker B:Every single month that we go up, loser gets their list of movies that they don't want to watch.
Speaker B:Put up on the Patreon available for purchase.
Speaker B:If we tie both.
Speaker B:Let's go.
Speaker B:Is up.
Speaker B:February is a tie.
Speaker B:Both lists are up right now that you can go and purchase movies that one of us does not want to watch.
Speaker B:We'll watch it.
Speaker B:We'll put out a bonus episode for you guys.
Speaker B:But the voting part to pick and choose completely free.
Speaker B:Join us there.
Speaker B:We also have some extra content that is behind paywall as well for 600 something episodes, I think.
Speaker B:And those range from bloopers, outtakes, all the way up to full length episodes of movies that nobody should ever watch.
Speaker B:But we did for you guys.
Speaker B:Those are the best places to get involved with that.
Speaker B:I will kick it back to.
Speaker B:Well, first.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Yeah, I better shout out the patreons who made us do these last two months.
Speaker B:It's hard for me to say made because I've been enjoying the last two months.
Speaker B:You've been hating it.
Speaker B:But special thanks to Charles and Rich for, you know, being on and engaging.
Speaker A:In all our content.
Speaker B:We appreciate you guys very much.
Speaker B:But with that, I will kick it back to the self proclaimed salt tan of swat, the wa of wap.
Speaker A:Jj.
Speaker A:I was so happy I got to use those.
Speaker B:That was so great.
Speaker A:It's the first time I've ever taken advantage of my power and so I did.
Speaker A:This is the kind of movie that makes me do this.
Speaker A:So yeah, I appreciate it.
Speaker A:Listen, as always, we appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker A:We'll catch you on the next one.
Speaker B:Hasta la vista, baby.
Speaker A:Cinematic.
Speaker B:Ra.
