Full Metal Jacket (1987)
Alec, JJ and Mattson's discussion centers upon Stanley Kubrick's seminal 1987 film, "Full Metal Jacket," wherein we conduct an exhaustive analysis of its dual narrative structure, comprising the harrowing boot camp experience juxtaposed against the chaos of the Vietnam War. We dissect the profound impact of R. Lee Ermey’s portrayal of the drill sergeant, which many believe singularly elevates the film's initial act to an unparalleled level of cinematic excellence, yet we lament the subsequent decline in narrative cohesion and engagement in the latter half. The variance in pacing and thematic exploration between the two segments prompts us to contemplate Kubrick's artistic choices and the efficacy of his directorial vision. Throughout our discourse, we reflect upon the film's commentary on the dehumanization of soldiers and the moral complexities intertwined with the experience of war. Ultimately, we arrive at a consensus that while the film remains undeniably significant, its bifurcated nature invites a myriad of critiques regarding its overall effectiveness and lasting legacy.
Support us:
https://www.patreon.com/whatsourverdict
Email us:
hosts@whatsourverdict.com
Follow us:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/whatsourverdict
Twitter: @whatsourverdict
Instagram: @whatsourverdict
YouTube: https://youtube.com/channel/UC-K_E-ofs3b85BnoU4R6liA
Visit us:
www.whatsourverdict.com
Transcript
Because he ruins the movie and he ruins it in the best way possible.
Speaker A:Yeah, because you have this front half where you get amazing.
Speaker A:Like, I didn't know they stack that high.
Speaker A:Trying to squeeze an inch on me somewhere.
Speaker B:Welcome to the what's over podcast.
Speaker B:We fashion ourselves cinematic judge and jerry.
Speaker B:My name is JJ Crter.
Speaker B:I'm here with my co hosts matz and hiner.
Speaker C:I say, I'll say, I'll say, I'll say better red than dead.
Speaker B:And Alec burgess.
Speaker A:Let's get it.
Speaker B:We appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker B:Go ahead, hit that.
Speaker B:Follow, subscribe like bell notification buttons.
Speaker B:Keep up with all of our episodes.
Speaker B:Help us grow the podcast too.
Speaker B:And tell a friend about us, tell a family member about us, tell a Vietnam war vet about us.
Speaker B:But please, not one like private pile.
Speaker A:Alex.
Speaker B:Enough crazy psychotic for all of us.
Speaker B:We don't need another one.
Speaker B:Whether he was tortured to that point or not, we don't need anymore.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:Look, it's week two of war movies and we're really shifting gears here.
Speaker A:We're complete 180.
Speaker B:We went from very civilized war making to the not so civilized at all and are doing this week full metal jacket here on week two.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:It was written and directed by Stanley kubrick.
Speaker B:Stars Matthew modine, Arley ermey, Vincent d'onofrio, Adam baldwin, Dorian harewood, Kevin major Howard arlis Howard, Ed O'Hare, Edo Ross.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:And John Terry.
Speaker B:It's about a pragmatic u.
Speaker B:S.
Speaker B:Marine who observes the dehumanizing effects the Vietnam.
Speaker B:Vietnam war has on his fellow recruits, from their brutal boot camp training to the bloody street fighting in hue.
Speaker B:Yeah, Matson, this one's your choice, buddy.
Speaker B:Kick us off.
Speaker B:Tell us why you chose it.
Speaker C:Oh, it's a movie I've always wanted to watch.
Speaker C:I'd seen, I don't know, first 15 minutes, 20 minutes, something like that.
Speaker C:And I had the intention of watching all the way through, but I don't remember.
Speaker C:Life got the way.
Speaker C:Never got to it.
Speaker C:And even when I started watching this, I actually watched it the same day that we're recording this.
Speaker C:I was like, wait, I know I've seen the beginning of this movie.
Speaker C:And then I kept trying to remember, where haven't I seen this?
Speaker C:And it was pretty easy to tell where the lines got blurred because did not remember private pyle doing what he decided to do.
Speaker C:Definitely did not see that part.
Speaker C:So it's just something that I heard a lot about this movie and just wanted selflessly, just Wanted to watch it.
Speaker C:So I was like, well, this fits the billing of the theme of a wide open war movie, so why not pick this one?
Speaker C:Having seen it all the way through, I would say I really enjoy the first hour of this movie.
Speaker C:I think it's riveting cinema.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:Man, the guy that plays the drill sergeant, I mean, I don't know if he made up some of those lines or who wrote those in for him.
Speaker C:And I don't care if he made some up.
Speaker C:He totally delivered them.
Speaker C:And that guy has a second life as a drill sergeant.
Speaker C:He should sign up for the Marines and go do that tomorrow.
Speaker C:But, like, the.
Speaker C:The barracks life and all that, really like that.
Speaker C:I get the pivot in Vietnam and what they're trying to show.
Speaker C:The intention of what this movie showed, I think was spot on.
Speaker C:I appreciate it.
Speaker C:I just think the second half of the movie, the pacing was a little bit slower and just not as captivating as the first hour for me.
Speaker C:So I feel like it trailed off a little bit.
Speaker C:But I appreciated the narrative of what they were trying to show, and I think that core theme carried throughout.
Speaker C:I just like the first half of the movie more than the second half.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:To let you know, unfortunately, R.
Speaker B: Lee Ermie died back in: Speaker B:But Kubrick originally wrote a bunch of lines for him, but, like, he was so good at what he did and improvising it that Kubrick quit writing for it and just said go and that.
Speaker B:So 90 of the.
Speaker B:That he says to those guys is improvised.
Speaker A:Wasn't he, like, drill instructor, drill sergeant as well beforehand?
Speaker A:So, yeah, like, he was just riffing on stuff he used to do.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And apparently, like, he gave every single guy in that platoon, like, nicknames.
Speaker B:You just only hear about the main ones.
Speaker B:But, like, all of them had him at some point throughout the thing.
Speaker B:And, like, he only called them.
Speaker B:He was wild.
Speaker B:And like, I think.
Speaker B:I mean, you see a lot of drill sergeants in a lot of movies, but I think the ones that you see that and you think about all, it was either him or, like, they were using him as, like, their mold of what a drill sergeant should be because he's.
Speaker B:This is probably one of the most iconic performances in movie history when it comes to.
Speaker B:Especially when it comes to drill sergeants, because, geez, I could sit here and like, even before we watch.
Speaker B:I watched this again.
Speaker B:It's been years since I watched this movie.
Speaker B:But, like, there's that, like, I used.
Speaker B:We used to shout at each other as kids, like, when this first came out Like, I mean, he says some nasty ass, but man, we used to yell at each other, call each other private pile.
Speaker B:Like if you did some dumb, like, are you stupid?
Speaker B:Private pile.
Speaker B:Like, that's like what we used to do.
Speaker B:And then like, yeah, it was wild.
Speaker B:This movie really stood out when I was a kid.
Speaker B:Like, this is one of those things that we snuck into the theater to see before long before we could see rated R movies.
Speaker B:And we were like, the.
Speaker B:Did I just watch.
Speaker B:Because it's a dark ass movie.
Speaker B:But yeah, this movie, like, is just as much as Gettysburg, but for very different reasons.
Speaker B:A huge part of my teenage years.
Speaker B:Because, like I said, we snuck out and.
Speaker B:And saw like replays of this, like in the dollar theater.
Speaker B:And because it was so popular, they used to play it so all the time.
Speaker B:And so we'd go sneak into it in the dollar theater.
Speaker B:And yeah, it was great.
Speaker C:This movie did not hold back.
Speaker C:I mean, those couple things could not stay in the air here.
Speaker C:And I was like, haven't heard someone say that one in a while in a movie.
Speaker C:And yeah, damn, they.
Speaker C:I mean, you could say some in.
Speaker B:1987, even if you made a movie.
Speaker C:About that now, like, they wouldn't dare.
Speaker C:No, some of that stuff, like, no, I mean, even the drill sergeant at the very beginning, he's rattling off racist names of different national.
Speaker C:And I was like, I didn't even know some of those word words.
Speaker C:Maybe they weren't.
Speaker C:Maybe he just was that convincing.
Speaker B:Oh, no, they are.
Speaker B:Well.
Speaker B: And in: Speaker B:In trouble, unfortunately, or fortunately.
Speaker B:I don't know, it depends on your viewpoint, I guess.
Speaker C:But not saying all that needs to be in cinema today, like maybe a little bit of that.
Speaker C:No, of course, stay back then.
Speaker C:But at the same time, like, I like that this movie was just able to give you exactly probably what was said back then.
Speaker B:Oh, for sure.
Speaker C:That drill sergeant was contradictory.
Speaker C:Because he was like, I don't see color.
Speaker C:And then he proceeded to just berate every color known to me.
Speaker C:And he, I mean, no, he was no respective persons.
Speaker C:He gave everybody their stuff.
Speaker C:I was like, well, like at the same time, you're kind of just calling out exactly what you said.
Speaker C:You weren't gonna do something.
Speaker C:All right.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And that's, you know, if you prescribe to.
Speaker B:Look, I was never in the military, so I don't know truthfully, like, what.
Speaker B:I mean, I've heard stories, right.
Speaker B:From different generations, but like, yeah, when you talk about boot camp, like, their idea is to destroy you and rebuild you.
Speaker B:Like, that's sure as what that would do.
Speaker B:Like, I couldn't.
Speaker B:Like, and that's why I couldn't have ever been actually in the military.
Speaker B:Because even.
Speaker B:Even if it's not the same, like, that whole, like, Taren, like, I can't.
Speaker B:I don't have that much.
Speaker B:Me, an authority.
Speaker B:Can't do it.
Speaker B:Like, I would be like, what the did you say?
Speaker B:You better shoot my ass because I'm about to beat your old ass.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker B:Like, I couldn't do it.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:In my face and couldn't do it.
Speaker B:Nope.
Speaker B:Thankfully, I only did rotc, where in high school, like, he could yell at our ass all the time, but he couldn't get in our faces.
Speaker B:And because we were high school kids.
Speaker C:Like, we were like, get out of.
Speaker B:Here, J.J.
Speaker B:that's kicked my ass, man.
Speaker B:It was fun, though, about that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:I'm watching American Sniper right now while I'm working out.
Speaker C:I haven't gotten too far in it, but I got to the drill instructor part and, yeah, like.
Speaker C:And he was in, like, the real stuff.
Speaker C:Like, the.
Speaker C:The seals stuff everywhere.
Speaker C:I'm like, man, they really did some crazy things.
Speaker C:This one was much more normal, but he was just so psychological.
Speaker C:And I think that's what's so obviously interesting about the first hour of this movie is what happens with Private Pyle where he even gets berated.
Speaker C:Then that the Joker helps him, but then the Joker obviously gives up as well.
Speaker C:They have a scene in the bathroom saying, I think we're losing him, but he can just tell.
Speaker C:This kid just kind of dumb and hasn't figured it out.
Speaker C:But then, like, Pyle flips a switch and starts to figure it out.
Speaker C:And you just.
Speaker C:I'm.
Speaker C:Because I hadn't seen before, I was like, I'm like, 99 sure he's gonna go crazy.
Speaker C:Just depends on when it happens.
Speaker C:And, man, I wasn't prepared for.
Speaker C:I don't know what he ate that day that he acted that scene, but holy cow, dude.
Speaker B:Vincent D'Onofrio is.
Speaker B:Has been wildly underrated until recently.
Speaker B:Like when he did Daredevil and on Netflix and he was, you know, Kingpin.
Speaker B:Like, that's where I think he became globally known and, like, respected and appreciated.
Speaker B:But, like, in.
Speaker B:In a lot of circles, Like, I've.
Speaker B:Since I saw this movie, like, Vincent Onofrio has been one of my favorite.
Speaker B:He's done a bunch.
Speaker B:Like, there was one where he played Robert Downey jr's brother.
Speaker B:And they were like.
Speaker B:He was Robert Downey Jr's a lawyer, and his brother's like.
Speaker B:And Vincent Alfredo was an old baseball player that, like, his brother, he broke his arm.
Speaker B:Anyway, he's great in that.
Speaker B:Like, there's a lot of things that D'Onofrio's done that I'm like, God, he's good.
Speaker B:But he's never been, like, a lead.
Speaker B:This was the closest to a lead he got.
Speaker B:And he was only for the first half, and it was just him getting his ass ripped and chewed most of it, and then losing his at the end, which he does.
Speaker B:So, like, that face he makes with, like, his hooded eyes and that shitty, like, smile, like, God Almighty.
Speaker B:It's crazy.
Speaker B:And he's creepy.
Speaker B:And I love the.
Speaker B:The twist.
Speaker B:Like, so when you first meet him, like, he's sitting there trying not to laugh the whole time, and he's getting that.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Then by the end, like, he's just.
Speaker B:He's cracked.
Speaker B:And there's, like, nothing left of this dude to the point where he just does it, you know?
Speaker B:And old.
Speaker B:Poor old drill sergeant goes down and then he takes it and like it.
Speaker B:Yeah, but what a performance.
Speaker B:Like, that's.
Speaker B:And I think, to me, like, that shift.
Speaker B:They try to make Adam Baldwin kind of that way that the back half of the movie, the.
Speaker B:The animal mother or whatever, like, they try to have him be that.
Speaker B:And I love Adam Baldwin, don't get me wrong.
Speaker B:But he's not Vincent D'Onofrio.
Speaker B:And so he doesn't carry that scary, cracked losing his as well as denafrio did.
Speaker B:And I think the movie suffers because we don't have Denafrio.
Speaker B:Like, I would love denofra to been in the back half of the movie in some way, shape or form in that war.
Speaker B:Because, Gez, that would have been a wild switch to flip and to see how that would play out.
Speaker B:So I don't know very interesting concepts, but I will say I'm with you.
Speaker B:My problem with this movie is the.
Speaker B:The split, because to me, it feels like two different movies and with the same characters.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:So it's hard for me.
Speaker B:And they filmed it that way.
Speaker B:Like, they actually filmed the Kubrick filmed the Vietnam scenes the second half of the film first and then came back and filmed the first half in a different place and in a studio and whatnot.
Speaker B:And so they're filmed differently and they feel different.
Speaker B:And you can.
Speaker B:To me, I don't like the second movie as much as I Like the first, because I'm supposed to be attached.
Speaker B:The only character I'm attached to is, is Joker.
Speaker B:And even when we see Cowboy again, I'm like that.
Speaker B:I don't really like Arlis Howard that much, so I'm not really attached to Cowboys.
Speaker B:So I, by then I have nobody that I'm like rooting for like I am in the first half, because you meet these guys and you're rooting for them, you want them to be successful.
Speaker B:The second half for me, I'm like, as long as Joker lives, I'm good.
Speaker C:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, I, I don't know.
Speaker B:To me, it just doesn't, doesn't work as well.
Speaker B:There's not as much impact as there is in the first half of the Match movie.
Speaker B:It's not a bad movie at the back half.
Speaker B:It's just not.
Speaker B:I don't find myself as tied to what's going on and, and the characters as much as I do in the first.
Speaker B:Like, I want everybody to be successful in the first one, which doesn't happen, but there you go.
Speaker B:All right, I'll shut up for a minute.
Speaker B:I'd love to hear what your thoughts are.
Speaker A:Oh, I'm kind of in the same boat as you guys.
Speaker A:I think Stanley and he messed up.
Speaker A:R.
Speaker A:Lee Ermey, go wild.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because he ruins the movie and he ruins it in the best way possible.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because you have this front half where you get amazing.
Speaker A:Like, I didn't know they stacked that high.
Speaker A:Trying to squeeze an inch on me somewhere, right?
Speaker B:Stacked five foot nine.
Speaker A:First time I heard that, I just like spit up whatever I was eating because it's just hilarious.
Speaker A:And the movie just takes a free falling nosedive once you get to Vietnam.
Speaker A:Like, at least for me, where I'm.
Speaker A:I'm sure it's a marvelous movie, but it is such a come down from the beginning that it feels like absolute dog shit.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so it's, it's like you means Kubrick made a mistake in the fact that he, you know, had this great opportunity with Arlee Ermey and let him go wild.
Speaker A:And it makes such an amazing movie.
Speaker A:But then you cut it and you release an hour long TV special.
Speaker A:Like that's the problem is it's, it's ruined from that point on because anybody who talks Full Metal Jacket, not a single person mentions Vietnam.
Speaker B:No, no, never.
Speaker A:It's Private Pile.
Speaker A:It's Harley Ermey.
Speaker A:It's, you know the, the sock scene, right?
Speaker A:Where they just beaten on socks like every, every instance that's ever mentioned with this movie is in the first hour.
Speaker A:Is in the.
Speaker A:Is in the first part of this movie where you have going through boot camp.
Speaker A:There is never any mention of anything after that.
Speaker A:And so I think Cooper, like, you know, probably had this great vision of what he's gonna do, and it's almost like, fumbled because Arlee Ermey kind of showed up and said, hey, I can actually do this better than you can, because I've lived it right?
Speaker A:I've done it before.
Speaker A:I know what I'm doing.
Speaker A:And from that point on, Kubrick's just almost like a passenger trying to hold on and steer this in a direction to go, and falls flat in many ways.
Speaker A:But the problem is that the front half is so goddamn good.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:I don't think Tay's seen it just for the first hour of the movie.
Speaker C:We have to watch it.
Speaker C:Like, I'm like, baby, just gotta experience just this guy just sounding off on people and humiliating them.
Speaker C:And, like, I'm sure filming that when if he was going off the cusp on some of the spike, I was on the film crib.
Speaker C:Like, where did this guy come from?
Speaker C:Like, what.
Speaker C:Where did.
Speaker C:What did he concoct last night in bed?
Speaker B:Like, gee, dude, I'd have ruined so many scenes because I'd have broke so hard.
Speaker B:Like, I.
Speaker B:I still.
Speaker B:To, like, seriously, when he's yelling at freaking pile and he's like, I bet you could suck a golf ball through a hose.
Speaker B:Like, I can't even.
Speaker B:I bet you're the kind of guy.
Speaker B:Guy in the ass won't even give him a reach around.
Speaker B:Like, what?
Speaker A:But it's.
Speaker A:It's the way he says it too.
Speaker A:Like, don't have even the courtesy.
Speaker A:So it's not even coming up with it.
Speaker A:It's saying it and then adding those little pieces in.
Speaker C:I want to know how many ret.
Speaker C:Had to deal with crack.
Speaker B:Dude, I would love to see the outtakes of that if Cubert kept them.
Speaker B:But, like, man, they had to break so many times.
Speaker B:Either that or they were so afraid of the guy that they couldn't break.
Speaker B:But, like, I.
Speaker B:I'm going with option one.
Speaker B:Like, I.
Speaker B:I am.
Speaker B:Seriously.
Speaker B:I imagine that the reason that Denafrio couldn't keep his together was real.
Speaker B:Like, that's how I think about that.
Speaker B:Like, the fact that he has that shitty grin and, like, AR is, like, playing off of that going, all right, if you're gonna keep giggling, I'll show your ass.
Speaker B:I'm gonna make you choke yourself on My hand.
Speaker B:Like, what the is that?
Speaker B:But yeah, like, it's just like, Godamn.
Speaker B:It's so genius, like watching him just.
Speaker B:But then this, the.
Speaker B:The switch flips in that moment where Joker's helped him, right?
Speaker B:And he's starting to get his together and he's doing like, he's really good at the rifle stuff.
Speaker B:And then like, he's giving.
Speaker B:Paying him compliments.
Speaker B:And until the donut scene, like, it's like, okay, now he's starting to get it.
Speaker B:And you're like, okay, so he'll give compliments too if you get your together.
Speaker B:But man, he just tears, that guy.
Speaker B:It's a jelly donut.
Speaker B:Oh, what a scene, man.
Speaker B:What a scene.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:You eat it.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:You paid for.
Speaker B:They're paying for it.
Speaker B:Oh, God, what a scene.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker B:Like, that's some of the best film in history in the first hour of this film.
Speaker C:I just like that they.
Speaker C:Yeah, like, let me start with the haircutting.
Speaker C:They just get right into it.
Speaker C:There isn't like, yeah, we don't get backstories in these people's lives.
Speaker C:They throw you right into the barracks with them.
Speaker C:And you're just experiencing it.
Speaker C:It's like you're almost standing there as it's happening and it's great.
Speaker C:Like, honestly, that performance, probably one of the best performances I've seen in sima.
Speaker C:Dude, just.
Speaker C:He, like I said, he should have been a drill sergeant.
Speaker C:Like, I think drill sergeants that watch it probably stole some of his material.
Speaker C:Like, damn, I gotta step my game up.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:I mean, he said some of that.
Speaker C:What would he have said about me, man?
Speaker C:He would have had a lot of material on me.
Speaker B:Bunch of redheaded, that's for sure.
Speaker B:Oh, he would have been all over me, dude.
Speaker B:Matson, is your dad the name Matt?
Speaker B:Lawrence of what, Arabia?
Speaker A:Private Leprechaun.
Speaker B:He's too tall for that.
Speaker C:Yeah, that wouldn't have worked, but he would have.
Speaker C:He would have had some stuff.
Speaker C:Carpets match the drapes.
Speaker C:Yeah, it said I'm so white.
Speaker C:It's like sperm.
Speaker C:Like my daddy's sperm never left my.
Speaker C:Like my skin.
Speaker C:Something some weird like that, you know.
Speaker C:You already know he's doing it.
Speaker B:Holy Jesus.
Speaker B:What is that?
Speaker B:What is that?
Speaker B:Private pile.
Speaker B:A jelly donut.
Speaker B:God, it's so good.
Speaker B:And the.
Speaker B:Yeah, the lines that came out of that, man, I like I said we.
Speaker B:Back in the early 90s when I had seen this movie, we were very not politically correct.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:There was a lot of the lines that I won't say now that we used to holler at each other from that movie.
Speaker B:Like, it's just this smorgasbord of wonderful insults that you can throw at your friends and.
Speaker B:And go, I know what movie you're talking about.
Speaker B:And then it just becomes this back and forth of like tearing into each other.
Speaker B:What a great, great performance.
Speaker B:I think for me, one of the things that there's a scene that just really, I'm like, I get annoyed by because I think they were trying to be funny and yet not funny at the same time was when the two guys die and the one guy was getting ready to be out on the section 8 or whatever from his.
Speaker B:Because he was jerking off all the time.
Speaker B:Like ten times a day.
Speaker B:Like that whole.
Speaker C:The office and he jerked off there.
Speaker B:Yeah, like that whole scene when they're going the circle and they're all staring at him.
Speaker B:Like, I hate that scene.
Speaker B:Like, it actually annoys me to the point that I was actually hitting my skip 10 seconds.
Speaker B:Because I just don't feel like I.
Speaker B:It feels like they were trying to.
Speaker B:Which is ironic because it was filmed first, but it was like they were trying to catch the magic that they had in the first half of the movie in the back half by doing something that was so twisted and having this conversation that was so up.
Speaker B:These guys, this guy that they served with for a while now is the two of them are dead and they're making jokes about his jerking off problem and whatnot.
Speaker B:And I'm just like, I get what you're trying to do, but it just misses by a mile.
Speaker B:Like, I don't look at these guys and go, what's wrong with you?
Speaker B:I go, this is dumb.
Speaker B:Like, what am I supposed to learn from this?
Speaker B:Like, I get more from the shitty conversation when they're sitting outside the building and they're like, the one girl is like, hey, you got a girlfriend, Vietnam?
Speaker B:And like they're having like those weird conversations or even like the hilarious where the.
Speaker B:They're trying to like the Vietnamese hooker and the guy comes up and he's selling her and she won't take the black dude.
Speaker B:Like, that was funny as to me because it's twisted and it's weird.
Speaker B:And then the fact that like the one guy, animal mother was like, no, I'm first.
Speaker B:And then like, that whole, like that is twisted and weird and funny to me in the sickest way possible.
Speaker B:Whereas, like that scene around, like, it just was like, I know what you're trying to do and it just doesn't work.
Speaker C:I don't want.
Speaker C:I don't want seconds after your business is gross.
Speaker B:Hey man, you're out in Vietnam.
Speaker C:You've been out there.
Speaker C:I know we're desperate.
Speaker B:Yeah, you take what you can get sir, in that situation before you die.
Speaker B:And I do love like the negotiation.
Speaker B:$15 per man.
Speaker B:What $5 $10 was 15 back then.
Speaker C:Was.
Speaker C:Wouldn't that have been now like a few hundred now?
Speaker B:15 bucks?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:What would that be now?
Speaker C: s,: Speaker A:What is 70 bucks?
Speaker A:Probably?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:70, 75.
Speaker C:Here.
Speaker B: I'll tell you: Speaker B: So if that was: Speaker B:When was sizable so in 19 when was Vietnam?
Speaker C:70 wasn't like late 60s in the 70s.
Speaker B: to: Speaker B:So let's say it ended.
Speaker B: Started at the end in: Speaker B:Dang.
Speaker C:Vietnam started that early?
Speaker C:Jeez.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Started the year my dad was born.
Speaker C:That's why goodness.
Speaker B:And went until he was 20 years old.
Speaker B:20 years.
Speaker C:Can't even imagine it go with a war going that long today.
Speaker B:That's nuts, dude.
Speaker B:I mean we were close in the war in Afghanistan and like that was 20, almost 22 20.
Speaker B:It was a long ass time.
Speaker C:Not nearly as many people died though as well.
Speaker B:Sure, I mean that's very different.
Speaker B:War tactics are very different.
Speaker B:I mean if you think about it, I think the Civil War is the most highest body count in our country's war history.
Speaker B:Which is saying a lot, isn't it?
Speaker B:Like that's.
Speaker B:But again that's what war looks very different between the generational as you get modern weapons and Hell I don't.
Speaker B:We don't even as far as war goes, it's rare we even need bodies on the ground this any much unless it's special unit stuff, special forces stuff.
Speaker B:And yeah, halftime.
Speaker B:We don't even hear about that until it's over and done with.
Speaker B:So if we hear about it at all.
Speaker B:So yeah, war was I.
Speaker B:I think like when you think back I mean war is war and it's gross and it's foul and it's.
Speaker B:It's a terrible thing necessary or not in certain situations.
Speaker B:But I think when you think about Vietnam, it's probably the worst when it comes to being like.
Speaker B:We just weren't, you know, we weren't prepared for that.
Speaker B:What it was like Vietnam turned the tables on what we used to do to people and like.
Speaker B:Yeah, anyway except for ourselves and talking about the Civil War.
Speaker B:That was the goofiest.
Speaker B:Hey, we just kicked the out of the British a handful of years ago.
Speaker B:A couple decades ago.
Speaker A:We're bored.
Speaker B:Let's do.
Speaker B:Let's.
Speaker B:Let's fight in the exact same way that they did when we kicked the out.
Speaker B:But anyway, whatever, dude.
Speaker C:Yeah, the one of the scenes in the second part of me that stuck out to me was the helicopter scene where that guy is just.
Speaker C:Just unloading and you're just like, no, he's not.
Speaker C:He's not.
Speaker C:And then just like, wow.
Speaker C:And then he says how many he killed.
Speaker C:And then the water.
Speaker C:When he threw in the water buffalo, I was like, bro, like, all right.
Speaker C:Like, what are we doing?
Speaker C:This is.
Speaker C:That was wild.
Speaker C:But you're like, well there for so long and you just desensitize yourself to.
Speaker C:You're just killing them or either use them for prostitution or killing all of them.
Speaker C:Like, that's all that they were.
Speaker C:It's just.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker C:And that's what they did show and like, show that well as just how desensitized you get.
Speaker C:And Warren, how you look at your.
Speaker C:Your enemy.
Speaker C:And I didn't realize we were there for that long.
Speaker C:I forgot, like, geez, you definitely, especially those soldiers that are going to late 60s, early 70s, you know, you're just like, what the hell am I doing here?
Speaker C:What am I doing here?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine at the end of that war, like, the last probably decade that we were there, like, you have to be going, why am I even going here?
Speaker B:Like, this war is lost and nobody wants us to be here.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:It's one that, like, you hear about.
Speaker B:And like, there's been a lot of movies made about the Vietnam War, but, like, that's one word.
Speaker B:Most of the time, soldiers, even today come home.
Speaker B:And I mean, most of us will thank them for their service and appreciate what they did, because, I mean, absolutely.
Speaker B:I have a lot of friends in the military, and it's like, I really appreciate that they're willing to do that for whatever reason they got into the military, whatnot.
Speaker B:Like that.
Speaker B:I appreciate that.
Speaker B:But like, man, in Vietnam, they were coming home and people hated them for being there.
Speaker B:And it's like, Jesus.
Speaker B:Like, that to me is like, I have a hard time with that.
Speaker B:Like, when people blame the soldiers for the.
Speaker B:What's going on in the war, like, that's a struggle for me.
Speaker B:And I'm not saying that these soldiers weren't doing very heinous and shitty things.
Speaker B:But to have them come home and then to be berated and belittled and on for something that those that had never been there could never understand, like, that's a hard pill to swallow for me.
Speaker B:And again, I wasn't alive back then, but I've talked to my mom and dad who, you know, were.
Speaker B:They were kids, but they were like, it.
Speaker B:It was wild the way that soldiers were treated, especially the later half.
Speaker B:Later half of the war, you know, you went through what they went through.
Speaker B:Like, what, four presidents in that war or something like that.
Speaker B:Like, it's.
Speaker B:It's nuts, man.
Speaker B:And the different.
Speaker B:Each different president had a different take on how they were going to handle the war.
Speaker B:And, you know, none of them said we would ever increase, but then they always ended up increasing the numbers that were sent out there because they just couldn't swallow the fact that America can lose.
Speaker B:It's just like, wild.
Speaker B:What a shitty war.
Speaker A:It's also tricky thing because this is like a.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:It's not very much a war that was in the forefront of what's happening.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:While Vietnam is happening, you have the civil rights movement going on.
Speaker A:You have, you know, the fake moon landing going on.
Speaker A:You have Nixon taking us off the gold standard.
Speaker A:You have all these things that are going on that are, you know, Watergate and everything that's kind of included.
Speaker A:They're taking up the.
Speaker A:The forefront of this.
Speaker A:Of the news, so to speak.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:Yeah, Vietnam wars, you know, exciting whenever they need to.
Speaker A:To be exciting.
Speaker A:And then it kind of goes back into the.
Speaker A:The woodwork until it comes back again and makes headlines again.
Speaker A:And so it's a.
Speaker A:It's a weird war as well, because it wasn't so much in the forefront where, you know, World War II, it's on the front page of every newspaper all the time until it ends.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so it's very much fought.
Speaker A:It's almost like it's fought in the background.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which makes it a tricky thing to follow or corroborate or even pay attention to for the entirety of it.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Well.
Speaker B:And it adds to the fact the length of that war adds to the.
Speaker B:The ease with which you can forget that it's happening.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm not gonna lie, because 20 years of.
Speaker B:Of the Afghanistan war, like, half.
Speaker B:There were times when I'd be like, oh, we're still.
Speaker B:Yeah, we still have a lot of going on over there.
Speaker B:We have soldiers over there fighting every day, and I'm sitting here worrying about who won the super bowl this year.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, so it's like, it's.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I agree.
Speaker B:Like, it's.
Speaker B:You hit.
Speaker B:You think about World war III or 2 or.
Speaker B:Sorry, we're predicting the future.
Speaker A:I was here, James.
Speaker B:My bad.
Speaker B:That movie's next week.
Speaker B:No, World War II.
Speaker B:Like, were in it, in the thick of it for three years.
Speaker B:Ish.
Speaker B:And then this.
Speaker B:We're in it for 20 years and you can only focus your attention on it every single day.
Speaker B:Eventually it becomes white noise.
Speaker B:Unless something happens.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And then it's in the news cycle for six months and then it's back to business as usual.
Speaker B:So, yeah, modern wars are wild.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And technically, I think the Korean War was the first one that was considered the first modern, modern war.
Speaker B:But, I mean, Vietnam was probably the first real.
Speaker B:Real, like, seriously massive amounts of artillery and things like that that were happening.
Speaker B:And then we're marching through jungles and getting just obliterated from the shadows.
Speaker B:It's a crazy war.
Speaker B:Talk hours about Vietnam because that's a war that.
Speaker B:I'm just like, wow, what a show.
Speaker B:But there it is.
Speaker B:But this movie's crazy.
Speaker B:Kubrick's a sick.
Speaker B:If you've watched any of his other.
Speaker B:Like, there's something wrong with that dude in general.
Speaker B:So doesn't surprise me that this movie comes out of that quacko's mind.
Speaker B:And he makes great films.
Speaker B:Don't get me wrong.
Speaker B:Like, his shit's good, but he's cuckoo.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, he's.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's Gomer pile for sure.
Speaker B:There's something wrong with his ass.
Speaker B:And I don't know if he was created or he was just born that way, but something wrong with him.
Speaker B:But he turned it into a lot of really good movies until the end there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What was that one he did with Tom Cruise and Tom Cruise wife that basically broke him up?
Speaker B:Not really.
Speaker B:I'm sure it was a lot more than that, but Eyes Wide Shut or some.
Speaker B:If you ever watch that one.
Speaker B:That's a weird movie.
Speaker B:I don't recommend watching it.
Speaker B:It's shit's weird.
Speaker B:But anyway, should we rate Full Metal Jacket?
Speaker B:Do it, Madsen.
Speaker C:Do it.
Speaker C:Haven't seen this all the way through.
Speaker C:I want to give this movie a three and a half.
Speaker C:Like we said, it feels like a split movie.
Speaker C:I mean, I think many of our listeners have probably seen this movie.
Speaker C:Haven't.
Speaker C:I mean, just for the first hour alone.
Speaker C:Like, my goodness.
Speaker C:Like, you might leave your jaw on the floor or your belly might be in aches because you've been laughing so much just for that.
Speaker C:Just go see it.
Speaker C:But the second half trails off.
Speaker C:Like Jay just said, it really feels like two different movies, but it still gets the point across of what it's trying to tell overall, that the.
Speaker C:The morality of war and how it wears on you and what it does to you as a human being, I think that translates throughout.
Speaker C:But I mean, you're here for the drill sergeant performance, and that alone is worth watching this movie, I promise you.
Speaker C:And if you haven't seen it while, like, geez, go watch it again.
Speaker C:This is a movie I will watch again.
Speaker C:Why?
Speaker C:It's not rated higher.
Speaker C:I think it's just for the fact that it really trails off after that first hour in ways that aren't as exciting.
Speaker C:But again, it's something that I will find myself watching again.
Speaker C:And I need to add more of those insults to my friendship with these two co hosts here.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I can't wait to hear you say some of those.
Speaker B:Yeah, never mind.
Speaker B:I'll stop with that.
Speaker B:It's my turn.
Speaker B:I will go.
Speaker B:I'm gonna give this movie A4.
Speaker B:Look, I think this movie, if it kept the same feeling as the first hour, would have been off the charts.
Speaker B:Five.
Speaker B:Like, but it does lose that magic in the back half.
Speaker B:I will say that there are moments of greatness in the back half too.
Speaker B:Like the scene, like the very end when they're trying to get through the sniper.
Speaker B:Like, that's crazy.
Speaker B:Like, you can see how quickly something can go south when the leaders of the company, the unit, like, start going down and people have to start moving up the ranks.
Speaker B:And then there it's easy for again, like Animal Mother to be like, nope, I'm doing what I'm doing right?
Speaker B:And like, so it's.
Speaker B:There are interesting parts to it.
Speaker B:Interesting enough for me not to over dock it, I think, in my opinion.
Speaker B:But it's still not enough to give it a five.
Speaker B:So I'm gonna give it a four.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker B:I watch it for the first hour and then some little bits here and there.
Speaker B:But yeah, I mean, there's nothing better than the Drill Sergeant.
Speaker B:That first end part, you're just like, holy balls.
Speaker B:And yeah, it's pretty nuts.
Speaker B:But yeah, I like the movie.
Speaker B:It's good.
Speaker B:It's worth the watch.
Speaker B:It's a.
Speaker B:It's one of those, like, classic movies that, like, if you haven't seen it, go see it.
Speaker B:Because then you join the ranks of the people that have seen Full Metal Jacket, which is, in my opinion, a lot, especially of US 80s and 90s kids.
Speaker B:So anyway, worth the watch.
Speaker B:Alec, bring us home, buddy.
Speaker A:I'm gonna be with Matt's on this one.
Speaker A:Three and a half.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I'm actually curious now and I probably will go do this sometime in the near future is to watch it the way it was filmed.
Speaker A:So watch the Vietnam scenes first and then go back to boot camp and kind of get a backstory of where they went to.
Speaker A:And I wonder if that would change the way I feel about it because coming off, like you guys both said, coming off the first part of this movie is just a like free fall nosedive for me.
Speaker A:And so I get bored or, you know, I'm pulled out of the movie by so much that there's almost nothing left to look forward to for the rest of this.
Speaker A:So it feels like a chore to get through it.
Speaker A:So I wonder if I put that part first and then watch the boot camp scenes at the end.
Speaker A:If it changes it.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:But three and a half for me, this one is one where it's.
Speaker A:It's a lot of YouTube shorts can get you through this.
Speaker A:The best part of this movie for me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I mean, it's.
Speaker A:It's a trick.
Speaker A:You want to.
Speaker A:I'll sit down and watch it, but probably only the first bit.
Speaker A:Unless we're doing it for the podcast.
Speaker B:Or something like that.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker A:Three and a half for me.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Private Snowball.
Speaker B:Also the greatest name ever.
Speaker B:Just because he just got done saying there's no racism here.
Speaker B:What's crazy.
Speaker B:Yeah, like, what a wild ass movie.
Speaker B:I just the line.
Speaker B:Just because one more.
Speaker B:I was thinking about, like, where he's looking at pile and he's like, did your parents have other kids?
Speaker B:I'm like, oh my God.
Speaker B:I bet they regretted that decision because you ugly some.
Speaker B:Yeah, I just.
Speaker C:I love that.
Speaker B:What a.
Speaker B:He's such an.
Speaker B:Anyway, there it is.
Speaker B:Week two, Full Metal Jacket.
Speaker B:We got a couple more weeks and war movies should be fun and interesting.
Speaker B:Very different from this one.
Speaker B:But yeah, here we go.
Speaker B:So with that Alec tell, everybody can find us.
Speaker A:Happy to jj.
Speaker A:Like JJ said, week two, big roller coaster, more stuff to come.
Speaker A:There is, like I said last week, there is literally no pattern to this.
Speaker A:It is all over the map.
Speaker A:We had no rules, no parameters in place for war movies.
Speaker A:It was just war movies and we were cut loose.
Speaker A:So special thanks to our patrons, Charles and Rich for putting together a selection for us.
Speaker A:Their fault, not mine again, so go blame them.
Speaker A:But fantastic lineup that we have stick around for the rest of the month.
Speaker A:Nothing makes sense.
Speaker A:It's fantastic.
Speaker A:Best place to get involved with the content is on Patreon at what's ever reviews.
Speaker A:Follow us.
Speaker A:They get involved in the voting process to select movies that go in.
Speaker A:Normally we have a little bit more of a structure with our months of what we're gonna do.
Speaker A:This month was great because it's wide open.
Speaker A:War movies was the only parameter.
Speaker A:So join us there.
Speaker A:That's the best place to get our content.
Speaker A:There's a lot of extras on there.
Speaker A:We have something like 450, 500 extra videos up of behind the scenes content, special episodes.
Speaker A:Just us goofing off and calling each other idiots.
Speaker A:It's fantastic.
Speaker A:So that's the best place to be.
Speaker A:Join us there.
Speaker A:With that, I'll kick it back to the Titan of terror, the wise year.
Speaker B:Of Wap A jj Yeah, I need a jelly donut.
Speaker C:Bavarian cream, please.
Speaker B:That's right, that's right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Thanks, Alec.
Speaker B:Appreciate it.
Speaker B:Go join us on Patreon.
Speaker B:It's a lot of fun and goofy over there and yeah, with that, as always, we appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker B:We'll catch you on the next one.
Speaker B:Cinematic.
