The Deer Hunter (1978)
JJ, Mattson, and Alec dive into a comprehensive exposition on the film "The Deer Hunter," a cinematic exploration that delves into the profound and harrowing effects of the Vietnam War on a group of friends from a small Pennsylvania steel town. The conversation commences with a juxtaposition of youthful appearances of renowned actors such as Robert De Niro, Christopher Walken, and Meryl Streep, highlighting the striking contrasts to their later careers. We engage in a critical analysis of the film's narrative structure, which some find convoluted, particularly in its pacing and transitions, as it oscillates between scenes of domestic life and the stark realities of war. Central to the discourse is the film's unflinching portrayal of the psychological trauma inflicted upon soldiers, emphasizing that it eschews romanticized depictions of warfare in favor of a more somber and realistic narrative. Ultimately, we conclude with personal reflections on the film's emotional weight, acknowledging its artistic merits while also expressing reservations regarding its length and editing choices, thus inviting listeners to contemplate the complexities inherent in war cinema.
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Transcript
And then Christopher Walken.
Speaker A:Never, ever seen him that young before.
Speaker A:Never.
Speaker A:He has a lot.
Speaker A:He had a lot of hair.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:I mean, he's a good looking old guy.
Speaker A:But I was like, okay, makes sense.
Speaker A:Like, I've never seen him.
Speaker A:I don't even know if I've seen movies of him before.
Speaker A:He was like, really old.
Speaker B:Welcome to the what's Already podcast where we fashion ourselves cinematic judge and Jerry.
Speaker B:My name is J.J.
Speaker B:crowder.
Speaker B:I'm here with my co host Matt and.
Speaker A:Better red than dead Alec Burgess.
Speaker C:Let's get it.
Speaker B:We appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker B:Go and hit that.
Speaker B:Follow subscribe.
Speaker B:Like bell notification buttons.
Speaker B:Tell a friend about us.
Speaker B:Tell a family member about us.
Speaker B:Look, I.
Speaker B:I feel like I'm repeating myself because I am, but tell a Vietnam War vet about us.
Speaker B:Or just an avid hunter about us.
Speaker B:That works too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:We're kicking off week three of war movies.
Speaker B:It is week three, right?
Speaker B:Or am I?
Speaker A:We.
Speaker C:Yeah, three.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Week three of war movies.
Speaker B:This week we're running into deer.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:It was written and directed by Michael Simoneau.
Speaker B:I've never gotten his name right.
Speaker B:And we'll say Michael Simoneau.
Speaker B:And it stars Robert De Niro, Christopher Walken, John Cazale, John Savage, Meryl Streep, George Zunza, Chuck Asperger, Shirley Stoller, Britannia Alda, and Richard Kuss.
Speaker B:It is about an in depth examination of the ways in which the Vietnam War impacts and disrupts the lives of several friends in a small steel mill town in Pennsylvania.
Speaker B:That's a very broad synopsis, but I guess it works.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So week three, this was my choice.
Speaker B:This is my.
Speaker B:It's my one and only choice in this podcast, is that again this month where I've only got one.
Speaker B:Thank goodness.
Speaker B:Yeah, you wouldn't have liked my other pick either.
Speaker B:Yeah, this movie.
Speaker B:Look, this movie really kind of messed with me when I was younger.
Speaker B:Like, this is one of the first war movies.
Speaker B:Like I.
Speaker B:I remember watching.
Speaker B:What got me to watch this movie is I was on a Robert De Niro kick.
Speaker B:One of my favorite movies of all time is Heat.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:It gets me, like every time I watch it.
Speaker B:I'm like, now I want to watch all of Robert De Niro films.
Speaker B:So I watch Raging Bull and I watch.
Speaker B:So I went on this kick of like, very old school Robert De Niro films.
Speaker B:And I was like, watched all the major ones and I was like, look, there's this movie, Deer Hunter.
Speaker B:This looks weird.
Speaker B:And then I start watching It.
Speaker B:And I'm like, holy, this movie is rough.
Speaker B:Like, it is heavy and dark and there is little to no joy to be found in this movie.
Speaker B:But I find it to be a masterclass in acting and character development and.
Speaker B:And just drama from start to finish.
Speaker B:And I think the part that really catches me is like, the fact that it's.
Speaker B:It's said and I don't know, but it's said that it's one of the most accurate depictions of like, the impact of war, especially the.
Speaker B:The Vietnam.
Speaker B:Vietnam War.
Speaker B:And like, how it really just changed people that went.
Speaker B:And look, not to diminish or like, everybody has their own experiences, but I think of the wars, like, war in general is going to change.
Speaker B:We know that.
Speaker B:Like, we've seen.
Speaker B:We have enough proof of that in our country from vets coming home from all wars being just changed and going through stuff, right?
Speaker B:But I think, like, watching this movie, like, I can't even fathom, like, it just makes me very grateful that I won, as stupid as this sounds, had back surgery that kept me from going into the military that I like.
Speaker B:I had planned to go to the military academy when I was younger.
Speaker B:And I mean, I had all the way gone up to be applying for one before I had my first car.
Speaker B:My car accident that drove me to surgery, which pulled me out of what I wanted to be able to do.
Speaker B:So anyway, you know, and then to not have to go to war and see these atrocities outside of like, in something like this.
Speaker B:But like, yeah, this movie's crazy.
Speaker B:So whenever I think of war movies, this is one of the first ones that I think of.
Speaker B:And it partially because of the acting and, you know, the cinematography, to me is fantastic, but also because it, to me, it doesn't like.
Speaker B:Grant, like, what am I trying to say?
Speaker B:It doesn't make war seem cool.
Speaker B:It doesn't make being a soldier seem like a fun thing to do.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Again, I think a lot of times war movies, not all of them, but a lot of them will like, make it look like this great, wonderful, grand thing.
Speaker B:And while it's something that happens and it's important and I'm grateful for our service people that have fought in wars, for what our country is and can be and has been.
Speaker B:But geez, man, like, this movie does not give you anything that makes me go, hey, I wanna.
Speaker B:I wanna go sign up for that.
Speaker B:So anyway, I just love this movie.
Speaker B:It is very long.
Speaker B:I will.
Speaker B:Three hours is a long movie period.
Speaker B:And this one, because it's character driven and very dialogue Heavy feels every bit of three hours.
Speaker B:But I just, I'm always infatuated by what's going on on the screen with this.
Speaker B:So anyway, that's me, Matson.
Speaker B:Poo poo it.
Speaker B:And then I'm here.
Speaker B:Curious to hear about Alec.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, I don't think I'm a poo poo as much.
Speaker A:I mean I'm, I'm on brand for a movie that's really long.
Speaker A:I think would I like this movie a lot more if they edited out 45 minutes and still, which I know it's character driven.
Speaker A:I think there's some areas that they could have snipped a little bit.
Speaker A:What I've liked maybe more.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:But what I will take away from this movie probably more than anything is one.
Speaker A:Never seen Robert Downey Jr.
Speaker A:Or, sorry, Robert De Niro.
Speaker A:At least the movies I've seen him in his goatee.
Speaker A:I just wasn't prepared for that.
Speaker A:I was.
Speaker A:And, and to be honest, I haven't seen many movies.
Speaker A:He was, this is the youngest, I think I'd seen him in a movie because I've seen him in some ones.
Speaker A:I knew he was younger, but I was taken away.
Speaker A:I was like, I've never seen him this young.
Speaker A:So one, I was like, oh, whoa.
Speaker A:And then Christopher Walken, never, ever seen him that young before.
Speaker A:Never.
Speaker A:He has a lot, he had a lot of hair.
Speaker A:He, I mean he's a good looking old guy.
Speaker A:But I was like, okay, makes sense.
Speaker A:Like I've never seen him.
Speaker A:I don't even know if I've seen movies of him before.
Speaker A:He was like really old.
Speaker A:That blew me away.
Speaker A:Never seen Meryl Streep that young before as well.
Speaker A:I do like a double take because I was like, oh, that is her.
Speaker A:Because I was like, this can't be heard says it's her, but it's her.
Speaker A:And so that was fun to see.
Speaker A:Some really amazing actors that I don't know if this movie was their big break or they were just still building a lot in their career.
Speaker A:But I mean, for that alone, I knew this movie is going to be good because I mean those are some of the best actors that you can find out.
Speaker A:You name all that.
Speaker A:There's some other really good people in this movie.
Speaker A:The scene, the Russian roulette scene, I mean, that'll stick with me.
Speaker A:I, I think of all the scenes in the movie, for me that was the most riveting because there was tension.
Speaker A:I mean, action.
Speaker A:But it also told.
Speaker A:I mean there's, I looked it up after there's no confirmed thing in history that this actually, like things like this happened from Viet Cong.
Speaker A:It doesn't mean it didn't happen, obviously, but I think they took something dramatic to show that obviously these prison camps, they were not fun.
Speaker A:They were anything but close to fun.
Speaker A:And I thought they picked an interesting way to depict the tensions of basically having to choose.
Speaker A:Are you gonna live?
Speaker A:Is your friend gonna die?
Speaker A:Like, how.
Speaker A:Like if just.
Speaker A:I mean, the chase scene afterwards, trying to get in the helicopter.
Speaker A:What happened to Steve?
Speaker A:Like, just.
Speaker A:I mean, that whole.
Speaker A:I don't know what that was, like 20 or 30 minutes.
Speaker A:I mean, that was awesome.
Speaker A:That was like.
Speaker A:I was to take like a mini movie.
Speaker A:I probably would go back and watch that part.
Speaker A:That was really exceptional.
Speaker A:Just you could feel it.
Speaker A:And then even I'll tack on that.
Speaker A:The restroom.
Speaker A:That scene I was talking about is when they were POWs.
Speaker A:But then you take it to the very end of the moon, like almost the climax.
Speaker A:Getting close to it, basically when he goes back to try and save Christopher Walking's character, which.
Speaker A:Why the.
Speaker A:What was his name?
Speaker A:Nick.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And that was also like the build up, the.
Speaker A:The last little bit, the build up to that.
Speaker A:And then actually when it happened, like, man, like, my goodness.
Speaker A:As well.
Speaker A:Incredible to watch.
Speaker A:I wish the movie would have ended more around there.
Speaker A:Like it then it had kind of a slow roll to the finish for me.
Speaker A:And that's kind of the last point for me.
Speaker A:This movie is so long and there's so many.
Speaker A:Like, there's the.
Speaker A:The build up to going to war and like seeing their friendship and the marriage.
Speaker A:The hunting.
Speaker A:I think I could have done without almost every hunting scene because they showed, like, you could have snipped a lot of the time there.
Speaker A:And then there's the Vietnam scenes and then there's like the post war scenes.
Speaker A:And I think the Vietnam and post war scenes, I pretty much liked all of it.
Speaker A:It was the build up.
Speaker A:I know why they did it, but I don't know.
Speaker A:Like, I was sitting there watching and I kept asking myself, like, is it because I.
Speaker A:I'm distracted while watching this or do I need to, like, restart this?
Speaker A:I just didn't feel like I was involved as much with these characters as I.
Speaker A:I wanted to be until they got to Vietnam.
Speaker A:And I don't know why that was.
Speaker A:Like, I found myself at times, like, confused and like, wait, this is a hunting trip?
Speaker A:Like, when are they going to war?
Speaker A:Like, there's all.
Speaker A:I think it was so dialogue heavy for me at times that I.
Speaker A:I got A little sidetracked, and then it got more on script.
Speaker A:I think I just kept thinking, like, when's.
Speaker A:When's the war part coming into this?
Speaker A:And then I was like, oh, this is.
Speaker A:This is that.
Speaker A:So maybe it was just a.
Speaker A:An expectation on my part that it wasn't as obvious, but it took me out a little bit and took me a long time to kind of to settle into this movie.
Speaker A:But once I did, it's a good movie, but it is.
Speaker A:It's long.
Speaker A:And it's not like a.
Speaker A:It's not like a.
Speaker A:Like a.
Speaker A:It's hard to say, like, do I want to watch this again?
Speaker A:I mean, for those couple of scenes, but, man, it's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's like watching American Sniper, which I recently rewatched again.
Speaker A:I remember I was quickly reminded why I didn't watch that movie for a very long time, because it felt like a funeral when I finished it again.
Speaker A:And this movie has very similar vibes.
Speaker A:It's not like you don't come out feeling real good.
Speaker A:You're like, oh, so all that to say it's long.
Speaker A:It's a very interesting movie.
Speaker A:But it took me a while to get into it.
Speaker A:But once I did, there were scenes that were riveting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right, Alec, your turn.
Speaker C:This one's tricky because I don't have a problem with, like, length or slow burn.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But what really gets me is when transitions are jarring and you go like, snap, snap, snap, snap.
Speaker C:So all of a sudden we're at a wedding, and then it, like, cuss, and we're in Vietnam.
Speaker C:But it's not like basic training, going to Vietnam.
Speaker C:It's not on the helicopter on your way over to Vietnam.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:Mike's in a ditch, you know, hiding or just waking up from what was almost a little death nap.
Speaker C:And so.
Speaker C:And that's the trick.
Speaker C:And then almost like you get five minutes of, okay, he's in Vietnam trying to figure it out, big reunion.
Speaker C:And then all of a sudden they're in a prison camp.
Speaker C:And so the, like, the transitions in between the sequences got me to be like, how do we get here?
Speaker C:And now all of a sudden I'm like, where's the draw?
Speaker C:Draw the line.
Speaker C:Give me a little bit of backstory.
Speaker C:Give me a little bit of the how we got here.
Speaker C:Because the first, like, hour of this movie, even the 45 minute long wedding scene, is something that I'm okay with.
Speaker C:And it's.
Speaker C:It's building this character.
Speaker C:You know, it's a.
Speaker C:It's you know, kind of telling the story about these guys, everything like that.
Speaker C:And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, it's like they remembered, oh, shoot, we're actually making a movie here.
Speaker C:Tick tock, tick tock.
Speaker C:We're on the clock.
Speaker C:And, you know, throwing Vietnam, throwing this.
Speaker C:And then, you know, it's the.
Speaker C:You get.
Speaker C:It's just a weird one for me because it's, it's these little spikes and there's no backstory for me to even kind of figure out how we got to this point after starting off the movie.
Speaker C:And I'm like, okay, character driven.
Speaker C:Slow burn.
Speaker C:I got this.
Speaker C:This is my jam.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker C:There's a rat in the cage.
Speaker C:And so it, it pulled me out, but not in the way that I normally get pulled out movies.
Speaker C:It pulled me out to just be like, what the fuck is going on?
Speaker C:And so, I mean, if that was the intended goal, like, psychologically, shit messed me up because I was constantly going, what?
Speaker C:What am I watching?
Speaker C:When I was actually rewinding sequences to be like, did I miss something?
Speaker C:Like, did I just fall asleep for 10 minutes and miss something?
Speaker C:I understand what was going on.
Speaker C:It's like, nope, that's just the way it float.
Speaker C:And so I actually probably took five hours to watch this movie.
Speaker C:But, I mean, I liked it, but there was parts of it where I was sitting there going, I.
Speaker C:I missed something.
Speaker C:Someone uploaded.
Speaker A:I mean, that's basically probably what happened to me.
Speaker A:And I didn't spend the extra two hours to fully.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Recalibrate myself.
Speaker C:I was like, wait a minute, I missed something.
Speaker C:Somebody uploaded a fraction of this and they pulled out a very key scene to the story.
Speaker C:But no, that's just the way it was made.
Speaker C:So it was on the frustrating side for a little bit because I was like, what's going on?
Speaker C:What's happening?
Speaker C:But it was good.
Speaker C:I mean, I liked it.
Speaker C:I don't think I could watch it again for those reasons, but I enjoyed it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And there's a reason that you don't hear about Michael Camino, Cimino, whatever the hell his name is.
Speaker B:Like, this isn't a guy that he.
Speaker B:He made this movie and it hit home really hard.
Speaker B:Won a ton of Oscars, including it kicked off Meryl Streep's record breaking run of Oscar wins because she.
Speaker B:This was her first Oscar in the supporting role.
Speaker B:And then she won like for Kramer versus Kramer the next year.
Speaker B:She won like five years in a row or some.
Speaker B:Like, she's insane.
Speaker B:But this was her first one this kicked her off, and she does a great job.
Speaker B:And it did.
Speaker B:You know, Robert De Niro was so worried about the controversy around this film that he actually didn't even go to the Oscars.
Speaker B:Like, he.
Speaker B:He was like, can I sit backstage?
Speaker B:And the Oscars are like, nope.
Speaker B:And he's like, it.
Speaker B:I'll stay home.
Speaker B:And he stayed home and watched it from TV because he was so worried about it.
Speaker B:But, yeah, like, it won a ton, and it did well.
Speaker B:And then he's just not.
Speaker B:Because his film making.
Speaker B:And I'm with you.
Speaker B:His editing.
Speaker B:The editing is horrendous.
Speaker B:But I.
Speaker B:There's like.
Speaker B:It's also like eight hours of film is what, like.
Speaker B:And he is.
Speaker B:He has a hard time editing himself because I'm with you.
Speaker B:Like, there's a lot of things that should have been edited differently or cut differently or, you know, if you're gonna do it.
Speaker B:Like, the jump cuts were hard.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:I definitely agree with that.
Speaker B:And really, I always look at it.
Speaker B:It's almost like three movies in one.
Speaker B:Three, really three short films that are all tied into one movie.
Speaker B:So it's really interesting.
Speaker B:But there's a lot of weird that went on in this, like, the filming in this movie.
Speaker B:Like, so when they're doing the Russian roulette scene in the prison camp, like, the slapping was real.
Speaker B:Like, they were getting the slapped out of them to the point that the actors were getting pissed.
Speaker B:And they were like, switch ads, of course, to the scene.
Speaker A:But De Niro wanted that because he wanted it to be believable.
Speaker B:Yeah, De Niro asked for a lot of things.
Speaker B:He also.
Speaker B:In the one where he does it to the.
Speaker B:The guy.
Speaker B:I can.
Speaker B:Can't think of his name, the character name, but the guy from the.
Speaker B:The little brother for.
Speaker B:Or the older brother from the God Bless America.
Speaker B:What's the movie now?
Speaker B:I'm trying to think of, too, from the Godfather, the guy with the mustache and the greasy hair.
Speaker B:So when he does that one at home and, like, he.
Speaker B:Michael forces him into it.
Speaker B:Like, there was a live round in that gun that was by Robert De Niro's demand.
Speaker B:And the guy playing the other character agreed to it.
Speaker B:Never fought it, but he was.
Speaker B:He was, like, obsessively checking the cartridge, like, making sure that the.
Speaker B:The bullet wasn't in there all the time, I guess.
Speaker B:Which I'm like, no, like.
Speaker B:But he wanted.
Speaker B:I guess for Dairo, it was about the real nervousness of the fact that even though they set it up to never have it be the real bullet like, it's there, and you have.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Apparently, cuckoo.
Speaker A:That's a.
Speaker A:Maybe put a blank in there, doesn't it?
Speaker A:Like, I don't know about that.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I didn't know this as well, but I guess he was younger then.
Speaker A:He did the.
Speaker A:He actually did the jump out of the.
Speaker A:The helicopter as well.
Speaker A:And so he did a little Tom Cruise.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:In fact, they were saying it was something like 15 times.
Speaker B:He had.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:He and that other guy had to jump out of that because directors are weird.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, it makes sense.
Speaker A:When this dude puts in enough of the nature scenes, I'm like, am I watching, like, National Geographic or, like, am I watching a movie?
Speaker A:And I'm like, look, dude, I appreciate a good view, but I've seen, like, 20 scenes of this.
Speaker A:Like, maybe just speed it up just.
Speaker A:Just a tad bit.
Speaker A:Like, come on now.
Speaker A:Yeah, that stuff got to be.
Speaker A:I was like, all right, dude, I know this movie's long.
Speaker A:I don't need 10 minutes of seeing the countryside.
Speaker A:Like, you gotta just, like, advance it.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, there's some serious stuff that you're like, why is this in here?
Speaker B:Like, I'm okay with all the scenes that have dialogue or the ones that are showing Michael where he'd prefer to be really kind of alone and.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, doing his thing.
Speaker B:But I.
Speaker B:Yeah, the, like, random shots of, like, nothing but driving by the forest or empty forest shots.
Speaker B:It's like, what the hell are we doing here?
Speaker A:Well, this guy, he got so.
Speaker A:The director got so big for his britches.
Speaker A:I was texting JJ about this a couple years later.
Speaker A:He made, apparently one of the most colossal movie flops in history called Heaven's Gate, where, because this movie was so successful, he basically was handed the.
Speaker A:The creative licensing to do every and anything that he deemed fit.
Speaker A:And as we've already seen, talking about this movie, he made some questionable decisions.
Speaker A:That movie, he basically, like, as I understand, overshot, took way too.
Speaker A:Like, the movie is already over budget, like, a couple days in, already behind schedule, like, on the first day, and just got worse and worse and worse and worse.
Speaker A:So I think this guy found the lightning in a bottle with this movie one because he just had amazing actors that saved him and the subject matter.
Speaker A:But I think he.
Speaker A:He's clearly not that good of a director.
Speaker B:Yeah, I can't.
Speaker B:I don't even know anything else that he's done.
Speaker B:Like, I.
Speaker B:And I don't.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:I mean, I looked it up when I was getting ready for this movie and look at.
Speaker B:But I don't remember anything even after looking it up.
Speaker B:Like, if you hadn't just told me it was Heaven's Gate, I wouldn't remember, like.
Speaker B:But, yeah, he's.
Speaker B:It's obviously got lucky.
Speaker B:Made a good movie, had some really good actors that, like you said, kind of carried it through.
Speaker B:But, yeah, like, the other one that really happened in this was so the director convinced Christopher Walken to spit in De Niro's face in that final.
Speaker B:And De Niro didn't know it was coming, which is why, like, the hesitation and the look on his face.
Speaker B:And he almost walked off set before because of it.
Speaker B:And, like, I guess, like, the director at some point was like, they were talking about it, and he's like, yeah, Christopher Watkins got balls, dude.
Speaker B:I would have punched him in the face.
Speaker B:Like, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, that's one of those things where you're like, oh, damn.
Speaker B:He actually spit on him and didn't know it was coming.
Speaker B:That's rough.
Speaker B:But that seemed to me, like.
Speaker B:I love that as a.
Speaker B:As the climax of this film when he goes back to get Nick.
Speaker B:And, like, Nick is just broken and.
Speaker B:And making all this money doing the, like, reliving probably the most traumatic moment of his life that, like, he was forced into by Mike to a certain degree.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, to help the escape plan.
Speaker B:And, like, just watching that and then watching the guilt that Mike has over the fact that Nick doesn't come out of this thing.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So it's.
Speaker B:I love that moment.
Speaker B:As sad and rough and difficult as it is to watch.
Speaker B:Like, I think that's one of those moments when you're just like this.
Speaker B:There's no way this ends well.
Speaker B:And then I love.
Speaker B:The other thing that I love is they don't try to, like, fix it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, we see this moment, then we see the funeral, then it's, you know, his friends, like, crying in their eggs, you know, as he's trying to, like, make dinner or make breakfast and whatever it is.
Speaker B:And then it just ends.
Speaker B:And I'm like, that's how a movie like this should end.
Speaker B:You shouldn't try to make me.
Speaker B:There's nothing to feel good about.
Speaker B:What happens in this film and the fact that they don't try to bring it back and make you leave on this high note.
Speaker B:Like, you leave going, that was up.
Speaker B:That whole thing was up.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker B:As hard as it is to watch and that, like I said, this is like, the third time I've ever watched this movie.
Speaker B:Because it's like, it puts me in a funk for the rest of the day after I watch it.
Speaker B:Because it's hard to watch.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's hard to, like, at least for me, like, sit and watch that and then go through it and then, like, try.
Speaker B:I start thinking about, like, well, how would I have handled a situation like that?
Speaker B:Like, who would I have been?
Speaker B:Like, I probably would have been the dude that couldn't, you know, do whatever and got himself freaking thrown out in the box with the rats and the wall.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, it's just like, man, it's just rough.
Speaker A:That's why I was happy I watched American Sniper.
Speaker A:Because I'll never forget walking out of that movie theater was the quietest a movie theater's ever been.
Speaker A:And I would imagine if I could have seen this movie in theaters, it would have been a very similar feeling.
Speaker A:And this movie, like, American Sniper, he.
Speaker A:It ends when you see that guy, and then it flashes to black and you're like, oh, I knew he was.
Speaker A:I remember that movie.
Speaker A:I knew he was gonna die.
Speaker A:Like, I think I knew he was gonna die.
Speaker A:I just didn't know he was gonna die.
Speaker A:Right, like, there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And the fact that they didn't even show it and then you got the.
Speaker A:Your typical black screen.
Speaker A:I was like, damn.
Speaker A:Like, damn.
Speaker A:He really went out like that.
Speaker A:Like, after all that, then this movie, very similar vibe where you're just like, damn.
Speaker A:Like, it's not really any way you can come back from that.
Speaker A:You're just trying to pick up the pieces and live a very broken life after that.
Speaker A:And his buddy Stevie, like, he's in a wheelchair for the rest of his life.
Speaker A:Mike's wants to be alone, but clearly very messed up and not getting the therapy he needs in the 70s.
Speaker A:He's just gonna limp along to the rest of.
Speaker A:And anyone else that was.
Speaker A:You just know it's just not going to be good.
Speaker A:So I like, it's.
Speaker A:This movie would have been absolutely horrible if they tried to find some silver lining, because then.
Speaker A:Then we would never be watching this movie.
Speaker A:I do appreciate movies that do that.
Speaker A:But for that matter, like, we're saying, like, I don't know, the next time I'll be watching American Sniper or the next time I'll be watching this movie because just, yeah, I'm not gonna go to war.
Speaker A:This movie makes me want to stay far away from it.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So it should be committed for that.
Speaker A:But our listening audience, like, yeah, is it worth the watch?
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:But maybe, like, have Something happy planned after.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:If you're in a bad place, don't watch this movie.
Speaker B:Not a good way to not gonna.
Speaker A:Not go.
Speaker B:Maybe.
Speaker A:Maybe it's that there's someone's always got it worse than you, but.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, there are some catharsis sometimes in situations like that, but I don't recommend it.
Speaker B:It gets rough.
Speaker B:It's rough.
Speaker B:Had either of you seen this before or is this the first?
Speaker A:I was gonna say you knew I didn't see this.
Speaker B:Yeah, I figured you hadn't.
Speaker B:I didn't know Alec, though, because with this movie, you know, doing some cinema.
Speaker B:Cinema classes and stuff before, like, sometimes this one makes it in those.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I'd seen parts, but not all in one sitting.
Speaker A:Yeah, they intentionally shoot this more gritty, like in the filming of it.
Speaker A:It has like.
Speaker A:It doesn't look as crisp.
Speaker A:I don't like a 70s movie.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker B:I just don't think it's ever been remastered.
Speaker B:Like, I don't think anybody want is like sitting around going, we should do a remastered version of the Deer Hunter.
Speaker B:Because I think there's also.
Speaker B:Back in the day, like when this came out, like, it was praised as, you know, top of its field type movie, won a ton of Oscars, things like that.
Speaker B:Now I don't think it's looked at as the same.
Speaker B:Like, it's still highly rated and.
Speaker B:But it's not like people go, this is like a masterpiece of a movie that you should go check out because of the things that we're talking about.
Speaker B:So I don't know that anybody's ever been like, we're gonna remaster Deer Hunter and maybe that'll make people feel a little less.
Speaker A:I think if someone could go back and re edit it.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:I think it could be a.
Speaker A:This is like a prime especially.
Speaker A:They'll have a little footage.
Speaker A:Take one of those talenting.
Speaker A:Take one of those talented editors and rehash this.
Speaker A:I think they make the movie better, probably be shorter and make more sense.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker B:I agree.
Speaker B:Yeah, it needs an edit.
Speaker B:Like, no doubt.
Speaker B:Like, I think you could really, to be honest with you, I think you could cut out most of the first.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker B:Of the.
Speaker B:The wedding scene.
Speaker B:Like, look, I like a lot of it or not a lot of it.
Speaker B:I like some of it because you have to have the introduction to the characters.
Speaker B:But I think you could have the introduction of the characters be the hunting scene.
Speaker B:Like, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Because you get the same thing or you get the very like maybe the end of the wedding or like, chunks of a wedding and they're getting drunk and they're hungover when they get up to go real early at hunting, and they're all still dressed in their.
Speaker B:They have your.
Speaker B:You know, you get that interaction and the.
Speaker B:Know the relationship that these guys have and the understanding that these three are going and the others haven't been called and whatnot.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And then you jump right to the rest of this movie.
Speaker B:But I.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker B:Like, I don't.
Speaker B:I understand why they did the wedding scene, but I don't think that other than the setup of Mike and whatever Meryl Streep's character's name is, I can never remember it.
Speaker B:But that piece there and the dynamic between Mike, Nick, and her, like, that you miss out on without it.
Speaker B:But I think you could edit around that, too.
Speaker A:Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker A:And we're getting close to the end, at least for what I wanted to say.
Speaker A:But I like that this movie stuck to the realism of Mike and I came out.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What was Meryl Streep's characters actually?
Speaker A:What was her name?
Speaker A:Yeah, the fact that they.
Speaker A:Because you're always like, are they.
Speaker A:Are they going to get together?
Speaker A:Is this gonna happen?
Speaker A:And that.
Speaker A:Thankfully, no.
Speaker A:I mean, obviously, some people could in the real world, but I think in a lot of ways, like, they show.
Speaker A:It's just too much.
Speaker A:Too much distance, too much pain.
Speaker A:Too much has happened.
Speaker A:And, like, it didn't happen.
Speaker A:And I think it was good to show that because, yeah, they could have gotten together.
Speaker A:That would have been so cliche Hollywood.
Speaker A:But I don't think it would have been the actual reality of what really happened with people, where things are just kind of broken beyond repair.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I did a good job with that because there was.
Speaker A:There's definitely tension, some awkwardness.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh.
Speaker A:Like, is it isn't like.
Speaker A:I mean, really great job between the two of them?
Speaker A:But I think it was just more of a reflection of what it probably would have actually been like.
Speaker B:I like that Mike skips out on his own homecoming party.
Speaker B:Like, he's like, that, dude, keep driving.
Speaker B:Like, I love that scene.
Speaker B:Like, that, to me, is like the epitome of, like, look, I don't want this.
Speaker B:I just want to go home and be quiet and calm and not be restless and.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker B:All right, should we rate it?
Speaker A:Let's do it.
Speaker B:All right, I'll go first.
Speaker B:My movie.
Speaker B:I'm gonna give it a four.
Speaker B:I think where this movie falls short We've talked about a ton is the length and some of the choices that were made around extra long scenes and shots of nothing but scenery versus, you know, people.
Speaker B:But where it shines, it really, really does shine.
Speaker B:And I, I, again, I don't know that I want to give too much credit to the director himself, per se, for that, but the actors in this movie are outrageous.
Speaker B:They're very good.
Speaker B:It's a huge ensemble.
Speaker B:And then you have these two just massive leading men.
Speaker B:And then, I mean, Meryl Streep, that's all you gotta say when you know the most nominated Academy Award actress in history, it's.
Speaker B:And for good reason.
Speaker B:She's amazing and she was great in this.
Speaker B:So I think it's a.
Speaker B:It's a master class in, in acting and then even in dialogue in a lot of places and so in writing and things like that.
Speaker B:But I do think that it has its flaws for sure, but I think it.
Speaker B:It knows what it is.
Speaker B:It sticks to what it is and it, it does it unapologetically.
Speaker B:And I really like the realism and the dark.
Speaker B:You know, they don't try to, like we said, they don't try to sugarcoat what this movie is and what it's actually about.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They play it true to the bone and it's hurtful and it leaves you not very happy walking out of the movie or finishing up.
Speaker B:But I think that makes sense and it is what should be.
Speaker B:So I'm gonna give it a 4.
Speaker B:I will probably watch this movie again in my lifetime, but it'll probably be a very long time.
Speaker B:It's been a very long time since I had watched it.
Speaker B:But this isn't a movie that I go, yeah, I want to sit down and watch the Deer Hunter.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:No, I don't walk away feeling real good about life when I'm done with it.
Speaker B:So it's one of those that I have to be like, really in the mood for.
Speaker B:Just some gritty, dark, and really well acted.
Speaker B:But there's other places to get a lot of that without it feeling just too rough.
Speaker B:So, yeah, Ford is for me.
Speaker B:All right, Alec.
Speaker C:All right, me.
Speaker C:I'm gonna give it a three and a half.
Speaker C:It was a rough watch for my own reasons, because the way I watch movies and what pulls me in and pulls me out, but it was good.
Speaker C:And the stuff that was good, it was really good.
Speaker C:But I almost, because of being pulled out, I almost had more enjoyment.
Speaker C:Not really enjoyment, but more.
Speaker C:I was more pulled into actually reading about the movie than I was in watching the movie in some cases.
Speaker C:Like one, a favorite story of mine after reading about it was that the guy who plays like the Viet Cong leader in the movie is just some random guy from Thailand they found who hates Americans.
Speaker C:Like, this dude was living his best life for three weeks while they were filming the Deer Hunter.
Speaker C:Just slap around a couple movie stars.
Speaker B:That's funny.
Speaker C:And so it's like little things like that that build around the story that really kind of pulled me in more so than for the parts where I was pulled out of the movie because I was like, what in the world is going on?
Speaker C:But three and a half.
Speaker C:I definitely will not be watching this again.
Speaker C:But it's not that.
Speaker C:It's not because it's a bad movie.
Speaker C:It's just that I just won't get anything more out of it, I think, than I already have.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker A:All right, Matson, I'm gonna give it a three.
Speaker A:I mean, biggest knock is Already said it.
Speaker A:Not gonna beat it.
Speaker A:That horse.
Speaker A:It's just the pacing, the length.
Speaker A:I think JJ said it best.
Speaker A:Like, you re edited this movie and took out some things, especially towards the beginning.
Speaker A:I think the, the middle to the end of this movie is well worth keeping, and I just think it needs to be at it.
Speaker A:I think it's phenomenal subject matter.
Speaker A:Great acting.
Speaker A:Some really riveting scenes.
Speaker A:As I talked about with the Russian Roulette, especially with the pow.
Speaker A:The end with the, the two friends, there's just a lot in between that is necessarily from a dialogue standpoint, but you kind of get lost in translation.
Speaker A:And this movie is so dialogue heavy that at times I just, I, I.
Speaker A:My interest waned a little bit and you got a little lost, really, towards the beginning, the middle end.
Speaker A:Like, I, I knew what was happening was the beginning where I just, I didn't see a lot of the purpose in terms of the wedding and like, staying up to date with what was being said.
Speaker A:Just got a little fatigued.
Speaker A:But if with a re edit, I think this movie would be great.
Speaker A:And it wasn't even watching it was good.
Speaker A:It's just depressing.
Speaker A:As we talked about, I don't know if I'll watch this movie again, but I do think I'll watch, like the POW scenes again.
Speaker A:That was just really phenomenal.
Speaker A:And I really appreciated the realism of the slaps and things.
Speaker A:I think it made it amazing.
Speaker A:So good movie.
Speaker A:It feels weird to say happy to have watched it, but it was a.
Speaker A:It was worth watching.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think my favorite story, Alec is the one where they were dragging Stevie to the pit thing.
Speaker B:And as they were putting him in, like, the actor has an actual fear of rats.
Speaker B:And so when he was yelling, michael, there's rats in here.
Speaker B:He was yelling at the director, not Robert De Niro's character.
Speaker B:And it was so real that they kept it because it worked.
Speaker B:And he had the same name as the director.
Speaker B:But yeah, like, this poor bastard got thrown in there with actual rats, and he has a fear of rats.
Speaker B:So he was yelling at the director, like, get me the out of here, dude.
Speaker C:It's up.
Speaker B:But yeah, there's just that final story to elevate the mood around the Deer Hunter.
Speaker B:Alex, tell everybody where they can find us.
Speaker C:Happy to.
Speaker C:So this is week three of War Movies, and once again, that's the only thing that matters to this topic, is war movies.
Speaker C:There is no other correlation.
Speaker C:It is high, low, great, bad in the middle, long, short, everything you can imagine.
Speaker C:Only thing that's tied together war movies.
Speaker C:So thank you for tuning in.
Speaker C:YouTube is the best place to tune in so you can see our smiling faces while we're talking about wartime tragedies.
Speaker C:It's wonderful.
Speaker C:Special thanks to our patrons Rich and Charles, for pulling in.
Speaker C:Great selection for us.
Speaker C:Appreciate you guys.
Speaker C:If you guys want to get involved in the voting process, Patreon at what's our verdict?
Speaker C:Reviews.
Speaker C:Best place to get involved so you can vote on the content and, you know, help give us topics and then movies within those topics.
Speaker C:So it's a great time.
Speaker C:Go join us there to get more involved with the podcast.
Speaker C:And with that, I'll kick it back to the King of Crash, the Wazir.
Speaker B:Of Wap A.
Speaker B:JJ Yeah, thanks, Alec.
Speaker B:Yeah, there it is.
Speaker B:War Movie week three, the Deer Hunter.
Speaker B:As always, we appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker B:We'll catch you on the next one.
Speaker C:Hasta la vista, baby.
Speaker B:Cinematica.
