Hacksaw Ridge (2016)
Mattson, Alec, and JJ have a discission that revolves around the cinematic exploration of "Hacksaw Ridge," a film directed by Mel Gibson that recounts the extraordinary true story of Desmond Doss, the first conscientious objector to receive the Medal of Honor. We delve into the complexities of Doss's character, who, despite refusing to carry a weapon, demonstrated unparalleled bravery by saving numerous soldiers during the Battle of Okinawa. The discussion highlights the dichotomy between the film's compelling portrayals of heroism and the criticisms of Gibson's directorial choices, particularly regarding historical accuracy. We reflect on the emotional weight of the film's climactic battle scenes, which serve as a testament to Doss's conviction and courage, juxtaposed against the slower narrative build-up that precedes them. Ultimately, this episode serves as a profound examination of the moral dilemmas faced by individuals in wartime, as well as the impact of storytelling in shaping our understanding of historical events.
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Transcript
Right.
Speaker B:So I think Mel Gibson makes phenomenal movies.
Speaker B:I don't think he should be allowed anywhere near anything historical or not be allowed to make any kind of call on a movie about history, because he makes very, very good movies.
Speaker B:But he takes the book and just throws out the window.
Speaker A:Welcome to the what's up?
Speaker A:Every podcast, we fashion ourselves cinematic judge and jury.
Speaker A:My name's J.J.
Speaker A:crowder.
Speaker A:I'm here with my co host, Matzenheider.
Speaker C:Shout out to my boy, Jaden Daniels.
Speaker C:Let's go.
Speaker C:Commanders this year.
Speaker C:Better Red and dead and Alec Burgess.
Speaker B:Commander's never gonna win.
Speaker A:Let's get.
Speaker C:Hey, nfc.
Speaker C:We went to the NFC championship.
Speaker C:We will be back.
Speaker B:We have one time in the last.
Speaker C:What, 50 years because we got rid of the tyrant Daniel Snyder and we actually have life again.
Speaker B:Okay, Yeah, I heard all before.
Speaker B:Remember, I grew up in San Diego.
Speaker B:I was a Chargers fan.
Speaker B:It never gets any better, dude.
Speaker B:You just think it does.
Speaker C:We actually have a quarterback, though.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I would get in on this argument, but I'm a Browns fan, so it's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's no way to live.
Speaker A:Did I introduce you, Alec?
Speaker A:I think I did, yeah.
Speaker A:You argued that they'll never win, so, yeah, there we are.
Speaker A:Look.
Speaker A:What a weird way to start.
Speaker A:But I like it.
Speaker A:We're in week four, the final week of our war month.
Speaker A:Month of war movies.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we're wrapping it up with an interesting one.
Speaker A:We're kicking off with Hacksaw Ridge.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:It was written by Robert Shinkon, Andrew Knight.
Speaker A:It was directed by Mel Gibson.
Speaker A:Stars Andrew Garfield, Sam Worthington, Luke Bracey, Teresa Palmer, Richard Pyros, Jacob Warner, Darcy Bryce, James Lugton, Kasha Stelmack, Hugo Weaving, Rachel Griffiths, and Tyler Coppin.
Speaker A:It is about.
Speaker A:And there's a whole lot more in this that I.
Speaker A:I'm just done reading names, but yeah, it's about a World War II American medic, Desmond T.
Speaker A:Doss, serving during the Battle of Okinawa, refuses to kill people and becomes the first man in American history to receive the Medal of Honor without firing a shot.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:That's an in depth synopsis there, but, yeah, there's that one.
Speaker A:Matson, this was your pick, right?
Speaker C:This was my pick.
Speaker C:Tell us why, oh, why this movie came out, I think, in, like, what you just said.
Speaker C:2016.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Or roughly around there.
Speaker C:This is one of those movies that I remember just hearing, like, wow, like, have you seen Hacksaw Ridge?
Speaker C:Like, you got to go see Hacksaw Ridge at least in my sphere of influence, this is actually like the year before I met J.J.
Speaker C:ironically enough.
Speaker C:And I just remember, like, the buzz around it.
Speaker C:And I was like, well, seems like a movie that I would probably enjoy.
Speaker C:And at the time, I.
Speaker C:I knew who Andrew Garfield was.
Speaker C:I think he had already played Spider man, right?
Speaker C:At least one once or twice.
Speaker C:And so I liked him.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I thought he was an actor that, like, I had positive recollection of.
Speaker C:I didn't know anything about the setting in this movie, but I like more movies.
Speaker C:So I was like, all right, I'm gonna give it a chance.
Speaker C:I mean, when I remember watching it, it was interesting to me because he's a Seventh Day Adventist.
Speaker C:So, like, the aspects of rel play, his morality, but then getting thrown into the face that you're in the army, you're really not going to take a shot.
Speaker C:Like, really not going to do it.
Speaker C:But then as he goes through camp, it's like, well, if you want to be a combat vet, I get you can be a liability because you, you're not going to take a life.
Speaker C:But, like, shoot, if you're a good one, like, can't that also work?
Speaker C:And I.
Speaker C:It was interesting to see the rigidity of the military.
Speaker C:But then you, like, you.
Speaker C:You start watching, like, well, that's how they exactly would react.
Speaker C:Because this is also audacious for this person coming to say, I'm not going to shoot a freaking rifle.
Speaker C:It's like, just pick up the rifle, pass the class.
Speaker C:Maybe you never take another shot.
Speaker C:Like, you don't have to be this difficult.
Speaker C:But it's two very obstinate organization and individual meeting coming together.
Speaker C:And I thought that was really interesting is I come from a faith that definitely, like, we don't do stuff on a lot of things on Sundays.
Speaker C:When he talked about My Sabbath is on the Saturday and like, all that, you're like, oh, like, here we go.
Speaker C:Like, setting the line.
Speaker C:Like, is he going to.
Speaker C:Is he going to give in?
Speaker C:He got beat up.
Speaker C:Is he going to quit?
Speaker C:So that was really interesting to me.
Speaker C:The other thing that was funny to me is Vince Vaughn in this movie who, like, I don't think up until this movie I'd never seen him play anything that wasn't a comedic role.
Speaker C:I honestly don't think I've seen him in anything since.
Speaker C:And sure he has, but I just haven't seen him.
Speaker C:So it was weird to see him in that role.
Speaker C:It was like when the guy that plays Ross and Friends, what's.
Speaker C:I don't know what's his actual name.
Speaker C:Whatever it is.
Speaker A:David Schwimmer.
Speaker C:When he was in Band of Brothers as the same type of role as Vince Vaughn, I was like, you got to be freaking kidding me.
Speaker C:They like took.
Speaker C:This is the same type of.
Speaker C:They took someone funny and put him in like a very serious role.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:And it's not like he.
Speaker C:I just remember seeing that was like, oh, this is weird.
Speaker C:I never thought that.
Speaker C:And then the actual subject matter of the movie, once they get to Hacksaw Ridge, that's where I think this movie actually shines.
Speaker C:I think some of the lead up to this movie.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's kind of lukewarm for me.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's a little bit of a slow.
Speaker C:Like it is a slow burn.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I have to admit, like I.
Speaker C:The thing with his.
Speaker C:The girl that he ends up marrying and like they're in the family dynamic.
Speaker C:Like, I don't know, like it didn't hit home for me as much.
Speaker C:But once you got to the actual like war scenes and like putting his morality to.
Speaker C:To the test and actually seeing what he did, incredible.
Speaker C:I thought they depicted what actually happened there.
Speaker C:I thought it was captivating, interesting and just incredible.
Speaker C:Like that's really what he did.
Speaker C:My God.
Speaker C:Like, damn.
Speaker C:Like amazing.
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:Like I thought that was awesome.
Speaker C:I just think leading up to it to me left a.
Speaker C:Definitely some to be desired.
Speaker C:I'm happy I watched it.
Speaker C:I think it was interesting.
Speaker C:Definitely incredible story.
Speaker C:I'm glad that they told it different type of war movie though because it, it showed the.
Speaker C:The goriness and grittiness of war.
Speaker C:But from a lens of.
Speaker C:This is a person that didn't fight.
Speaker C:But here's what he did.
Speaker C:So there's a long winded way to say Startup is a different type of war movie and I wanted to throw it out there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What about you, Alec?
Speaker A:Had you seen this before or is this a.
Speaker B:No, I'd seen it before.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's a.
Speaker B:It's another tricky one because Mel Gibson.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I think Mel Gibson makes phenomenal movies.
Speaker B:I don't think he should be allowed anywhere near anything historical or not be allowed to make any kind of call on a movie about history.
Speaker B:Because he makes very, very good movies.
Speaker B:But he takes the book and just kind of throws out the window and the like the annoying part for me, right, is that he went around and he would say like, oh yeah, we toned down this movie from the heroics.
Speaker B:Which is usually the reverse.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Usually you take something, you kind of build out promotional Hollywood he's like, no, this guy was so cool, we had to make it worse for tv.
Speaker B:So over movie.
Speaker B:So be believable.
Speaker B:And it's like, why?
Speaker B:Yeah, all right, first of all, why?
Speaker B:And then similar to Matt's and Vince Vaughn throws me for a loop.
Speaker B:He has a phenomenal job playing the character, but the entire time it feels wrong.
Speaker B:And you get to the point like in basic, right, where you kind of first get introduced to him and he's just going up and down the line a little bit reminiscent of Full Metal Jacket and you know, Private Idiot and kind of There's a knife in my foot and all that.
Speaker B:That funny stuff that's very Vince Vaughn, but it's at odds with almost the entire rest of the character.
Speaker B:And he's trying almost to play it this serious way.
Speaker B:And so that throws me for a loop.
Speaker B:But the movie is phenomenal.
Speaker B:I love this movie and I think it's a.
Speaker B:A very good one to watch.
Speaker B:But I don't think Mel Gibson should be allowed to direct historical movies in any way, shape or form.
Speaker A:It's funny.
Speaker A:I just think Mel Gibson shouldn't be able to.
Speaker A:Allowed to speak in public.
Speaker A:Like, that's.
Speaker A:That guy can't.
Speaker A:Because I.
Speaker A:I'm with you.
Speaker A:Like, I think he's a phenomenal movie maker and actor, but when he says things outside of being scripted, just stop, stop.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Look, I.
Speaker A:This was, I was, I was very happy that this made the list because like, this was a sleeper for me.
Speaker A:I like war movies, but I'm very careful with them because I think sometimes they get made too often.
Speaker A:At least they used to.
Speaker A:It's been a while since I've seen a strong war movie.
Speaker A:But I also tend to like, I'm very skeptical going in because like focusing on one person in a war, I'm like, that's kind of crazy.
Speaker A:But I will say this is one of those movies.
Speaker A:And matted to your point, like, it's kind of a slow burn for a while.
Speaker A:Like, you're like, man, there's a lot of like lead up to this movie and build up.
Speaker A:But I think what this movie does very well is like the payoff it make like if you didn't have.
Speaker A:Look, I've gone back and I've watched YouTube for like videos of like the.
Speaker A:And the last of him pulling everybody out, right?
Speaker A:And it gets you, but it gets me because I've seen the rest of it already, right?
Speaker A:And I think like that's one of those things where this movie as good as the end is whether you watch the rest of it or not.
Speaker A:Like, if you watch his.
Speaker A:His achievements during this battle on Hacksaw Ridge, it will get you, like, motivated and, you know, like, you're like, wow, this is insane.
Speaker A:And look at what this guy's doing.
Speaker A:But if you watch the whole movie, it's even better because you see that one.
Speaker A:The struggle that he goes through to be able to still be a soldier and yet have permission to not carry a rifle.
Speaker A:It's a lot.
Speaker A:And all of these people, there's very few, if any, that are actually supportive of him, like, even to the point of his dad, like, being an absolute dick.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like, so it's like, nobody's supportive of what he's trying to do.
Speaker A:And yet it's all these people that aren't supportive that he's pulling off this mountain at the end.
Speaker A:So it's like watching that happen to me is like.
Speaker A:I was like, man, this is slower than dog.
Speaker A:The first time I watch him in the theater going, this is slow.
Speaker A:When are we gonna see some war?
Speaker A:And then I went, holy.
Speaker A:Without that, this would.
Speaker A:Would have been great, but it's unreal.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's because those scenes, him getting beaten up, the struggle with the.
Speaker C:His commander.
Speaker C:Gosh, why am I forgetting that?
Speaker A:Sam Worthington.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:His.
Speaker C:Yeah, his.
Speaker C:His commander.
Speaker C:What's his name?
Speaker C:Captain Glover.
Speaker C:Then there's Smitty Stars and how, like, Alton and some of the other people that are part of the company that the names don't remember as much.
Speaker C:Like, you can see the disrespect they had for him.
Speaker C:And they did a really good job building that, showing that.
Speaker C:And even when they got there, like, they're still just like, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker C:And then he starts to do what he does, and you can just see, like, in their eyes, like, wow.
Speaker C:Like, dosses.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:And then the scene where they're.
Speaker C:This.
Speaker C:The day they go back, they're waiting for him to pray.
Speaker C:And who knows if that actually happened or not.
Speaker C:Whether it did or didn't.
Speaker C:Real life, I'm sure there's something similar to that.
Speaker C:And you knew, like, you're like, they all believe in this dude because they think he's a walking miracle.
Speaker C:And clearly.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker C:What miracle?
Speaker C:Karma.
Speaker C:You would got the luck of 10,000 rabbit feet.
Speaker C:I don't care what you believe in that point, you wanted that dude on your side, and it all paid off because of the way that they showed.
Speaker C:I think what didn't land for me as much was more like the.
Speaker C:The PG romance with Dorothy that I just.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Like, I don't know.
Speaker C:Like, I get why she was a part of including very important to his identity and his motivation, but the way that they portrayed it, I.
Speaker C:That part just didn't have as much of the payoff for me.
Speaker C:But the rest of it, you needed it.
Speaker C:Because without understanding his struggle and the way that he went through it, like JJ said, like, it still would have been.
Speaker C:I mean, still riveting on screen, but it wouldn't have landed in the emotional way that it did because he.
Speaker C:He went above and beyond the call of duty for people that didn't want anything to do with him.
Speaker C:And he did it because he just knew that was his duty.
Speaker C:And also just the sheer.
Speaker C:Like, you're doing all that, and you've got these soldiers on the other side that will literally just kill you and themselves at the same time.
Speaker C:And you're just running amongst the clouds and the smoke and making it happen.
Speaker C:Like, I love the scenes in the.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The tunnels, because that's how the Japanese survived a lot more, because they built those intricate tunnels.
Speaker C:Amazing.
Speaker C:Like, he could have died so many.
Speaker C:I mean, they showed.
Speaker C:I'm sure if you.
Speaker C:You interviewed him, I'm sure he probably could have died, like, 20 times, who knows how many times.
Speaker C:And I'm glad they showed some of that because I'm sure he came close to death multiple times.
Speaker A:Oh, for sure.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think this is another movie.
Speaker A:We've had a few of them this month where, like, the cast is unreal.
Speaker A:And so, like, the acting is good.
Speaker A:And to your point, like, it's weird seeing Vince Vaughn.
Speaker A:I will say that he was in an.
Speaker A:He was in a season of True Detective where he was, like, a bad guy kind of thing.
Speaker A:And that was even weirder to get.
Speaker C:I don't think he was bad, though.
Speaker A:No, he was phenomenal in it.
Speaker A:Like, it just was odd.
Speaker A:Like, it doesn't.
Speaker A:It's like watching.
Speaker A:It's like watching a football player play basketball.
Speaker A:It just doesn't feel right.
Speaker A:But at the same time, it doesn't mean that they're bad at basketball.
Speaker A:They're probably really good at it.
Speaker A:And he's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So he acts.
Speaker A:And, like, one of my favorite parts is at the end when he's saving.
Speaker A:When.
Speaker A:When Doss is saving him, and he's like, give me your rifle.
Speaker A:He's like, it's a little late now, don't you think?
Speaker A:Like, I love that line, to me, is one of fast.
Speaker A:And then he looks at him funny and rolls it up in the.
Speaker A:In the blanket and tells him to get on.
Speaker C:I wanted that blanket scene.
Speaker C:I, like, I'm sure it wasn't real, but damn, I was like, man, I wanted that to be like a hundred percent real because that looked cool.
Speaker C:I was like, whoever came up with that, way to go.
Speaker C:That was cool.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Or he's like, dragging his ass and shooting.
Speaker A:Yeah, that was cool.
Speaker A:The whole, like, the whole thing is just wild.
Speaker A:And then, you know, there's these moments, like, where you can tell, like, this dude has to be unbelievably exhausted because, like, it's not a little ways that he's traveling, carrying these guys, dragging these guys.
Speaker A:You got to worry about being quiet and getting in a fight and like.
Speaker A:Or getting, you know, all that stuff, like, and then tying them up and then, like, holding the road.
Speaker A:Like, his hands had to have been just pure.
Speaker C:How many calories did he burn?
Speaker C:That's what I want to know.
Speaker B:It's going crazy.
Speaker B:Like, 110 pounds soaking wet.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:He wasn't a big guy.
Speaker C:No, it was not a big dude.
Speaker C:Like, human.
Speaker C:And they weren't dead, but human beings that are, like, basically dead weight.
Speaker C:Like, it's a rough life.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:To move them.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's.
Speaker A:It's nuts.
Speaker A:And I, you know, and I.
Speaker A:Look, Andrew, what's.
Speaker C:What's Garfield?
Speaker A:Garfield does an outrageously good job in this role.
Speaker A:And I think the scene for me, like, when he's all done and he jumps off the rope at the end and he.
Speaker A:With the other dude, and, like, the guys come out and try to grab him, and he, like, loses his, like.
Speaker A:I like, to me, that moment is so poignant because you're like, yeah, dude, these got to be horrified.
Speaker A:Like, the amount of, like, on edge and, like, in fear all the time.
Speaker A:He was.
Speaker A:For however many hours he was up on that mountain dragging people off, like, good Lord, I can't even imagine.
Speaker A:And then what's even more batshit is, like, two days later, a day late, whatever it is, he goes back up.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:And it's like, geez, what the hell?
Speaker A:So, you know, it's.
Speaker A:It's interesting where the.
Speaker A:The juxtaposition, if you will, of the two movies that we've reviewed the last two weeks, like, you have the Deer Hunter, which is like, there's no heroism.
Speaker A:I mean, there is, right?
Speaker A:There's the moment of Mike saving everybody and, like, they jailbreak.
Speaker A:But, like, there's no feel good about that because even though they escape like, it's not like they escaped anything good here.
Speaker A:Like, it's almost the exact opposite.
Speaker A:You're watching something very similar where it's this escape and he's saving people, but you're, like, full of this, like, motivation, and you're like, yeah, like, rooting for, you know, so it's.
Speaker A:It's wild how you can take two very desperate situations that are very similar in.
Speaker A:In what's happening in the situation that they're in, and yet two very different aspects of it and very different viewpoints.
Speaker A:And so I really enjoy this one because you come away going.
Speaker A:And let's be honest, this movie doesn't end very well either.
Speaker A:Like, because he goes back up and gets half blown away.
Speaker A:So it's just like, what the.
Speaker A:But at the same time, like, you just.
Speaker A:The understanding of why he's doing what he's doing is just epic to me.
Speaker A:Like, that's why, like, there's, like, I get all sorts of, like, amped up when I watch this movie.
Speaker A:And, like, even as.
Speaker A:As hard and sad as it is, like, you can't help but just have that reverence for whatever he actually did, whether it was accurately portrayed in the movie or not.
Speaker A:Like, if he did that with one guy, that's the right.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:So anyway, go ahead, Alec.
Speaker A:You look like you're about to say so.
Speaker B:Oh, no, I was just agreeing with everything you said.
Speaker B:You can hit the nail on the head.
Speaker A:Gotcha.
Speaker A:I like it.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think, you know, that's.
Speaker A:To me, one of the craziest pieces of this movie is, like, just the fact that you're watching something that even if they make it outlandish compared to the real story, like, the.
Speaker A:The fact that it's rooted in some level of truth.
Speaker A:Like, I want to know more about this guy and, like, his motivations and what happened to him after.
Speaker A:And, like, like, all that stuff to me is just wild because I would not be this dude.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:I'd be the dude.
Speaker A:Like, I'd be giving this dude hell.
Speaker A:Like, what the are you doing?
Speaker A:I don't want to fight with you if you don't got a gun.
Speaker A:Like, get the out of here with that.
Speaker A:Like, I'd be pissed.
Speaker C:Oh, we all would.
Speaker C:It's so easy to think, oh, you'd be the person they understand.
Speaker C:I, like, I'm a nice human being, but I'm sure I'd have been a dick, too.
Speaker C:I know you two would have been that.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely, dude.
Speaker B:You know how.
Speaker B:How problematic that dude is, like, from A leadership standpoint.
Speaker B:Oh, like at the squad level, like, I got Desmond Dosso.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, just the.
Speaker B:The hoops you'd have to jump through from a leadership standpoint, trying to figure out what to do with this guy.
Speaker B:Just would not be.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Alec froze.
Speaker A:I love it when Alec freezes.
Speaker A:He's back.
Speaker B:Yeah, I froze.
Speaker B:I was done.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker A:That's funny.
Speaker A:No, I.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think about it from like, a guy.
Speaker A:If you're in the trenches with this dude and you got a gun and people are shooting at you and he's laying there, I'd be like, listen, I'm just gonna go ahead and shoot you so I don't have to feel like I gotta take care of your ass.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, I.
Speaker A:To me, like, I can't imagine.
Speaker A:Not to mention your own personal mentality of, I'm gonna go to war without a weapon.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:Out of here with that.
Speaker A:Like, the balls that you need to, like, decide you're gonna do that.
Speaker A:Like, I can't even fathom.
Speaker A:Like, I.
Speaker A:I talk to my friends who are vets, I watch war movies, and I go, I wouldn't make it in war in a tank.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Let alone, like, out in the open as an infantryman with a weapon.
Speaker A:And then you say, ah, you know what?
Speaker A:I don't need a weapon.
Speaker A:I'm just gonna go save people.
Speaker A:I don't have that kind of balls.
Speaker A:I don't have that kind of bravery.
Speaker B:Well, the other flip of the coin of that.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Is being able to be a battlefield medicine.
Speaker B:Like, that isn't easy either, especially in the Pacific because Japanese soldiers saw the Red Cross and like, oh, target practice.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, it's not a fun experience.
Speaker B:You're probably attracted a lot more not.
Speaker C:Fun when you're, like.
Speaker C:When he realizes at the beginning they show it.
Speaker C:He's, like, trying to save everybody.
Speaker C:And then that the.
Speaker C:The guy that's been in comment a lot is like, I'll just give morphine and move on.
Speaker C:And how many times do they have to do.
Speaker C:Probably way too many times.
Speaker C:You're basically just accepting people are dying all the time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:For a guy like that, that's.
Speaker C:It's like his worst nightmare.
Speaker C:He doesn't even.
Speaker C:He's just trying to do his duty.
Speaker C:But the dude is.
Speaker C:He's like a little baby rabbit.
Speaker C:Doesn't want to be.
Speaker C:You don't want to be out there doing that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:He wants to be back with Dorothy doing his thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, and that's the other thing.
Speaker A:Like, you think About a medic.
Speaker A:Not only that, even you take the patch off.
Speaker A:You're trying to patch somebody up.
Speaker A:Gunfire going off, bombs exploding grenades going out like that.
Speaker A:I want to be in a hole with a gun, and I'm not even looking.
Speaker A:Just putting the.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker C:Like, Jay's just out there doing a little Pew, pew.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm like.
Speaker A:I'm like.
Speaker A:I'm no scoping dude.
Speaker A:I'm just.
Speaker C:JJ's got a Twinkie, and he's just.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I can't even look.
Speaker A:I'm just not that guy.
Speaker A:Like, I'm the guy that'll sit in a trailer with a remote control in my hand flying a freaking drone.
Speaker A:Like, that's my kind of war.
Speaker A:If I gotta do it, that's how I want it to be.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I just can't.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I think that's where some of my obsession with, like, war movies and, like, war stories.
Speaker A:Like, when I.
Speaker A:I used to ask my grandpa, and he didn't talk too much.
Speaker A:He was in the Korean War.
Speaker A:He didn't talk a lot, but I could get him to tell me some stories.
Speaker A:Very little about any kind of battle until I was a little older.
Speaker A:But it.
Speaker A:I'm infatuated with hearing that because I can't grasp that mentality of, like, I'm gonna go fight for other people and stuff.
Speaker A:I'm a freaking narcissistic prick.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't have that in me.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:So it's.
Speaker A:So It.
Speaker A:It really does intrigue me, and it's interesting to me when I go, I.
Speaker A:I see soldiers that are like, this especially.
Speaker A:Or any level of this where it's like, no, it's my.
Speaker A:You know, I want to defend.
Speaker A:I want to do this.
Speaker A:I'm like, man, you.
Speaker A:You are a better person than me.
Speaker C:J.J.
Speaker C:would just be better as an assassin and not part of a unit.
Speaker C:The psyche battle.
Speaker C:Same thing with that.
Speaker C:Lame.
Speaker C:Like, yeah.
Speaker C:Like, we can.
Speaker C:We can keep you, but we're gonna send you on special assignments by yourself, because with people.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You ain't gonna help that guy.
Speaker C:Especially without.
Speaker C:They'd be like, no, they just put.
Speaker B:Me as a minesweeper.
Speaker B:That's what they would do.
Speaker B:And just walk out in the field.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Or.
Speaker A:I mean, I think I could be a sniper, or I'm just sitting in, like, a sniper's nest, laying there, taking people out.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, but that's.
Speaker C:Except you'd have Cheeto fingers.
Speaker C:Jane, you'd slip on the trigger, though.
Speaker A:That's fair.
Speaker A:That's fair.
Speaker A:It's very true.
Speaker A:It's very true.
Speaker A:Yeah, I.
Speaker A:I couldn't.
Speaker A:It's just I'm not.
Speaker A:And I certainly couldn't be like an infantryman.
Speaker A:Like, I couldn't be front lines freaking charging in like that.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I'd be the dude.
Speaker A:I'd be like, well, he's funny, but we don't want his ass next to us when we go.
Speaker A:I'm the epitome of, like, if a bear's chasing me and a buddy, you better hope you can run faster than me.
Speaker A:Or.
Speaker A:Or you miss me tripping your ass because.
Speaker B:I'm not even gonna tell you there's a bear.
Speaker B:I'm just gon.
Speaker A:Wrong with Alec.
Speaker A:Oh, we've had that conversation before.
Speaker A:What was some.
Speaker A:I don't even remember.
Speaker A:It was a long time ago.
Speaker A:I want to go back and listen to the episode where we.
Speaker A:One of the earlier episodes, Matson and especially Javier and even Ian were all like, butt hurt.
Speaker A:Because I was like, no, I wouldn't save your asses.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I love you guys, but not so much.
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker B:I like, between me and someone else, I am picking me every single time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Absolutely hilarious.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:This movie is really, really interesting to me, and I think it tells a really good story that I didn't know even existed before this movie.
Speaker A:And so these are the kinds of movies that, like, in stories that I'm glad get told, you know what I mean?
Speaker A:Because they're things that I would have never even known about.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:When I hadn't decided to do it.
Speaker C:I know, but you see a sign, you're like, how is this not like how people not talking about this.
Speaker C:But there's.
Speaker C:I mean, there's enough of these things that they get lost in translation.
Speaker C:But, like, thank goodness, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah, well, that.
Speaker B:And Desmond Doss didn't say anything for like 50 years.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:He just went back to the backwoods of Virginia.
Speaker A:That's what I'd have done, too.
Speaker B:And chilled.
Speaker A:Well, I don't know.
Speaker A:Like, for me, it's like, surprising that more of the people that he saved didn't talk about it.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, that's the.
Speaker A:And maybe it's a respect thing because they understood who Doss was and kind of like, what he wanted from life and things like that.
Speaker A:So it wasn't a matter of we're gonna.
Speaker C:It had to be.
Speaker C:It had to be that it could have been the only thing, because otherwise you Know people like, he's a legend.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:He didn't.
Speaker C:He didn't kill 75 people.
Speaker C:But as you come to see, understand these things more.
Speaker C:Saving a life is just as good as taking a life.
Speaker C:And had to be something like that, because otherwise, how were they not writing more books?
Speaker C:How there's not more news article.
Speaker C:Yeah, it had to be.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's, like, to me, the only explanation that.
Speaker A:And I mean, well, that in World War II, like, it's not like everybody had a phone that, you know.
Speaker C:Well, yeah, but like.
Speaker C:But still, like, you still would have read about this, like, in newspapers and things.
Speaker C:Like, I think they.
Speaker C:He must.
Speaker C:I feel like he probably just told him, like, look, like, just keep it quiet.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I'm sure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't think.
Speaker A:Obviously, he's not a guy that's gonna want the fame, right?
Speaker A:Like, he was doing this for altruistic reasons.
Speaker A:Like, I think that's the argument that you watch in the movie, right?
Speaker A:Where he's like, no, I want to serve just like everyone else.
Speaker A:I don't want out of this.
Speaker A:I just want to do it on my own terms and in my own way.
Speaker A:And so, like, being able to do that, then.
Speaker A:And to his credit, like, it also creates a controversial thing.
Speaker A:Like, people are going to come home and go, great, he saved a bunch of people, but still other people follow suit, right?
Speaker A:And not everyone's gonna be a Desmond Doss, right?
Speaker A:Like, not everyone's gonna be capable of having that level of courage and.
Speaker A:And restraint and understanding and, like.
Speaker A:Because, I mean, that's the other piece.
Speaker A:Like, I think about myself, too, and I'm like, I'm gonna put my feet in the sand, right?
Speaker A:And I'm gonna be like, this is.
Speaker A:I'm doing this.
Speaker A:And then someone starts pew, pewing at my ass and, nope, give me that.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, all of a sudden, I'm not so strong in my will and beliefs here.
Speaker A:So, like, yeah, you know what?
Speaker B:Maybe a gun isn't such a bad thing.
Speaker B:Give me.
Speaker A:Did you bring an extra?
Speaker A:Because otherwise I'm gonna trip your ass and take it, because I don't want to be without it anymore.
Speaker A:Yeah, it just.
Speaker A:It's so interesting to me.
Speaker A:And I think that's, like, the most impressive part.
Speaker A:Like, he, of course, saving people, but we hear about those that did carry weapons that saved a lot of people in wars and situations.
Speaker A:So necessarily, saving people, while that's very awesome and it's amazing, I think the thing that really stands out to me and is Even more awesome about Desmond Doss is the fact that not only did he stick to his principles and the things that drove him and the reasoning behind why he wanted to do what he wanted to do and the way he wanted to do it, but he.
Speaker A:He followed through on it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It wasn't like he caved.
Speaker A:It wasn't.
Speaker A:To me, that's almost more brave than, say, I think any of the soldiers that felt they were capable would have tried to save people.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:In those situations, at least most of the soldiers, I think, would try.
Speaker A:Maybe not to that extent, but, like, the fact that he still stood stuck, stood by what his values were and what he decided he wanted to do, like, that takes a heap of bravery, I think, more than even a lot of other.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:He literally.
Speaker C:It's like the angel thing of, like, the would you still believe in God if you had a gun to your head?
Speaker C:Type thing, you or whatever, you put yourself in another scenario.
Speaker C:He essentially did, and he didn't back down.
Speaker C:And I think it's real easy to sit here in a chair and say, oh, like, that would have been me.
Speaker C:I think if anyone's really true, he's.
Speaker C:He's the.
Speaker C:The 1% of 1%.
Speaker C:Everybody's changing what they're doing, their tactic in.
Speaker C:In the face of danger like that.
Speaker C:I don't care who you are.
Speaker C:I don't know anyone that wouldn't.
Speaker C:I'm sure I.
Speaker C:If I had a gun, my head, and they asked me if I believe in God, like, man, I sure, like this, think I would say yes.
Speaker C:And I think about my family, like, well, if I lie here and I believe in God, like, he's gonna say it's okay and.
Speaker C:Or, like, I don't know, it's just like, stuff like that.
Speaker C:But this dude, I'm sure he would have been.
Speaker C:He would.
Speaker C:He would have died.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:I have no doubts about that.
Speaker C:He would.
Speaker C:Like.
Speaker C:I do.
Speaker C:He gone.
Speaker C:Because what he did there up on that ridge.
Speaker C:Hondo P.
Speaker C:He's saying he's.
Speaker C:He's.
Speaker C:He's gone.
Speaker C:I don't know anybody like that.
Speaker A:Yeah, I don't either.
Speaker A:Not me.
Speaker A:It ain't me.
Speaker A:I ain't that dude.
Speaker C:Like, I'm more altruistic than both of my co hosts, but I ain't that dude either.
Speaker C:Not even close.
Speaker A:I'm not that dude.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Nope.
Speaker A:All right, should we rate this thing?
Speaker C:Let's do it.
Speaker A:All right, Matson, your movie kicks off.
Speaker C:I'm gonna give this movie a four and a half.
Speaker C:I think the.
Speaker C:The Only reason it's not a five for me is just the.
Speaker C:The beginning.
Speaker C:Like, I.
Speaker C:Mel Gibson made this choice for it to be PG13, to appeal more to the Christian crowd, to get more people to see it.
Speaker C:And I understand why.
Speaker C:I think that's great.
Speaker C:But I think he.
Speaker C:He would have preferred it to be R.
Speaker C:And I think he would like the scenes with Vince Vaughn being the drill sergeant and, like, the.
Speaker C:More the PG love story.
Speaker C:Not that I needed to have, like, sex on screen, but, like, just more of the same type of movie from start to finish.
Speaker C:Would have been a little bit more cohesive.
Speaker C:This movie is just a little bit of a slower burn, but like we talked about, you need it.
Speaker C:I just think it detracts from it a little bit.
Speaker C:Well, once you get into the meat of this movie, especially the end, like, what an incredible payoff this is, will be a movie I will watch again.
Speaker C:I've seen this movie a few times.
Speaker C:Always happy that I do.
Speaker C:What incredible story.
Speaker C:If you have not seen this movie, just watch it.
Speaker C:Like, great story, inspiring.
Speaker C:So much different than last week's movie.
Speaker C:Like, this movie makes you feel good and ask yourself, like, can I do more in my life?
Speaker C:And great movie.
Speaker A:Go watch Alec.
Speaker B:I have never asked if I could do more in my life, but, yeah, I'm gonna be right there with Matson.
Speaker B:Four and a half.
Speaker B:And what docks it for me is Mel Gibson taking the story, and instead of making it seem larger than life, he actually brought it back and he changed the story to make it more believable and realistic for people.
Speaker B:It's like, dude, you had the opportunity with a story that's larger than life.
Speaker B:Nobody's gonna believe it, and it's all true.
Speaker B:And instead you decided, hey, I'm gonna reel it in a little bit like that.
Speaker B:That bugs me a lot because it leaves the door open of what this could have been to actually show a more historically accurate version of what Desmond Doss did.
Speaker B:But aside from that, like I talked about right off the bat, Mel Gibson can make a good movie, a really good movie.
Speaker B:He just should not be allowed anywhere near history.
Speaker B:But, yeah, four and a half for me.
Speaker B:I will watch this again.
Speaker B:I always love to sit down and watch it.
Speaker B:The slow burn, it doesn't really bother me so much because it kind of follows a story and a progression.
Speaker B:I'm all about that.
Speaker B:So I will be watching this again.
Speaker B:100.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think I'm gonna be right there with you guys.
Speaker A:Four and a half.
Speaker A:Like, I want to give it a five, but for Me, like there are some places where it feels.
Speaker A:There are pieces of the story that feel forced.
Speaker A:And I think that may come from what you're talking about, Alec, where like feels understated in a lot of areas and where it, to me, it should feel bigger and more pronounced.
Speaker A:And so I'm like, that's just.
Speaker A:It feels weird.
Speaker A:Like there are scenes that I'm like, this just doesn't fit.
Speaker A:And then when you get to the end, you're like, that really doesn't fit.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, it almost like waters him down to a certain degree all the way through the movie and then you get this big payoff and I'm like, I, I would have loved to have seen the obstinate version of Desmond Doss from beginning to end versus just this like always too kind, always just very soft spoken.
Speaker A:He, like, if you've read anything about him post watching this movie, he was.
Speaker A:But he wasn't like, he was also very outspoken and he was very.
Speaker A:It wasn't just, I'll speak out when I need to.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:He was very vocal, very loud about the fact that this is my right and he was argumentative about it.
Speaker A:And I want to do this.
Speaker A:So I don't like that they, that he made him almost small and then made him larger than life at the end.
Speaker A:Like, I get why they did it.
Speaker A:And I think, like I said, I'm not criticizing the movie itself, but I am.
Speaker A:I, I don't think it would have been a worse movie.
Speaker A:I think, I think it would have been as.
Speaker A:Just as good, if not better if they had like full on made this guy like who he was from start to finish.
Speaker A:And anyway, so I'm with you.
Speaker A:Like, I think it just felt.
Speaker A:There were moments that it felt weird.
Speaker A:Overall though, amazing movie.
Speaker A:And like I said, the last 45 minutes of this movie is some of the most awe inspiring on film in my opinion.
Speaker A:And the way that it's plays out and you see it and you hear it and you watch it, like I am always just riveted and what?
Speaker A:And like can't take my eyes off the screen.
Speaker A:Then I get all like emotional and like hyped up at the same time and then like sad.
Speaker A:It's wild.
Speaker A:The roller coaster that is the end of this movie.
Speaker A:And you're.
Speaker A:Especially the first time she's like, holy.
Speaker A:Is he gonna take a hit?
Speaker A:Is he gonna.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, it's crazy.
Speaker C:Private Dos is like the Rambo of medics.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker C:Literally.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's crazy and I think it's yeah, really good movie.
Speaker A:I will definitely watch it anytime.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I really like it.
Speaker A:I like the performances not just from Andrew Garfield.
Speaker A:Like, I think there's a lot of really, really good acting in this from Hugo Weaving as Tom Doss.
Speaker A:Like just was really stood out to me as well as like this mirror image almost of his son, like where he's has no real conviction anymore and he, you know what I mean?
Speaker A:He's just kind of a broken guy versus Desmond who's just like, he has everything that he's trying to do and do it right.
Speaker A:So I, I love that.
Speaker A:So, yeah, four and a half for me.
Speaker A:Really, really good film.
Speaker A:Hi, bud.
Speaker A:You kid.
Speaker C:You say J.J.
Speaker C:no, you don't want to say it.
Speaker A:J.J.
Speaker A:yeah.
Speaker C:Can you say Alec?
Speaker C:Hi.
Speaker A:Hey, you got in on it this time, buddy.
Speaker C:Hey.
Speaker A:Yo.
Speaker A:I was waiting for the.
Speaker A:I was expecting a.
Speaker A:Yeah, he's like, there's food over there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right, Alec.
Speaker A:We'll tell everybody where they can find us, man.
Speaker B:Happy too.
Speaker B:Well, this wraps up our month of war movies as advertised and promised.
Speaker B:There was no other correlation aside from war movies.
Speaker B:However, in picking our topics and our movies.
Speaker B:I think we both realize, or I think we all realize that there's a ton of options out there for maybe a follow up month of war movies.
Speaker B:So if you want that to happen or even several follow ups, there's plenty of stuff out there.
Speaker B:So join us on Patreon at what's our verted reviews.
Speaker B:Let us know what you want to see, let us know topics and then let us know your picks for the topics that we do pick.
Speaker B:Special thanks to Rich and Charles for setting us on the path with this war movie month.
Speaker B:Really appreciate it.
Speaker B:But with that, I will kick it back to the Titan of terror, The Maharaja of Mash.
Speaker B:Good call, Banks.
Speaker A:J.J.
Speaker A:that's right.
Speaker A:Thanks, Alex.
Speaker A:And yeah, we have our honorary fourth member Banks on the episode this week.
Speaker A:We like it.
Speaker A:Check him out.
Speaker A:Yeah, we.
Speaker A:It was a good month.
Speaker A:I like this month.
Speaker A:It was very random, very all over the place and yet a lot of good movies and a lot of interesting.
Speaker C:Takes before we usher in summertime.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:It's crazy.
Speaker A:June is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:Well anyway, with that, as always, we appreciate you tuning in.
Speaker A:We'll catch you on the next one.
Speaker B:Hasta la vista, baby.
Speaker A:Cinematic.
